Designing Microcontrolled Booster - Need feedback

[aliazhar]

I am new to this forum. i have posted a thread in automotiveforums where i have explained my design...i really want feedback/suggesions on this device. somebody from that forum told me to post it in this forum too, coz there are few good brains here as well who will definitly contribute. please read and let me know if you have any suggesions.

ok, here's what i am working on and i need your feedback on this...

i am designing a device which can give 5 to 15 horse power increase....
this device will control, basically, intake temperature controller but, not by fixing it with some resistor....it will use the same temperature sensor and add or decrease the values using a microcontroller.

this device can be set on automatic or manual control and will also give better milage - incase you dont need the boost.

equiped with a display for displaying the input and output data, it will show the power increase in real-time.

i need your opinions/suggesions/feeback on this project i am working on...

please give the best in your mind .

Thanks and Best Regards

[SappySE107]

RE: Designing Microcontrolled Booster - Need feedback

first off, how are you going to gain 15 hp with that? Do you know how the computer works, the table and constant values per termperature sensor readings, and how it will change other aspects of the motor? I prefer computer tuning to sensor tricks any day.

Also, how are you going to do anything about the O2 feedback for fuel control cause it is pretty much going to take care of whatever fueling changes you trick the computer into doing. Only timing will possibly do anything for you in terms of gains or gas milage, but even so I wouldn't be counting on a whole lot there, nor the user to properly make setting changes when appropriate (if there is a time to trick the computer).

[aliazhar]

again, you are definitly right about re-programming the PCM...but, this is not a very high-end device...but, sophisticated enough to get the boost or better mileage.

let me paste the answer here which i gave to the other forum on the same o2 question.

you are absolutly right....i did'nt said that i am skipping the temperature part in my device....i forgot to mention that i do have a temperature sensor in it. the microcontroller give the resistance to the pcm according to the onboard digital temperature sensor output which makes it a lot more precise...and incase if you want the boost, then the same temperature reading is used with +/- values which are still fluctuating according to the air temperature.

the whole point in this is giving the car right reading in normal driving and if some one wants to boost it, then also the values will not be static...it will be divided according to the temperature outside...
in the long run, for normal driving, there will be a better MPG and in the boost, there wont be a fixed reading.

your point of o2 sensor is also right, i can hook the o2 sensor line to my device too....which can keep the pcm getting the right values for emission. in other words, the pcm from both side will keep the right values and will not re-adjust itself.

in other words, what i am mentioning here is a type of complete stable solution for boosting or for normal driving. the benifits for normal drivings will be precise reading which will give better mileage per gas used and for people who wants to over-ride to boost will give precise boosting.

using a microcontroller is the best bet to keep the pcm working precisly. it will work like a daughter board on a PCM unit.

Let me know more if any of you got any comments.

Best Regards

[SappySE107]

Well now you lost me. Have you actually done any testing when you manipulate the computer. I believe what you are trying to do is the same thing another company has made already, only you want to keep the computer happy by tricking it into thinking everything is fine when it isn't.

What boost? How is there any benefit to normal driving when the stock sensors give accurate readings already? I don't see that giving better gas milage unless you make the motor run leaner and trick it into thinking its stoich already. And then you have the issue of KR with a lean condition under load which is going to happen if you try too hard. There is a lean cruise option in the older computers, maybe even OBD2 but I dunno, which leans the mixture under constant cruise conditions and switches off under load changes or no throttle.

[sharkey]

so basicly (correct me if im wrong) you want to trick the pcm into seeing a constant manifold temp, and trick it to see a constant o2 reading when under boost??? my question is, how is the pcm supposed to correctly supply the right fuel and timing when its not receiving the right signal??? pcm software is designed to tune your motor from the sensors using the raw data from the sensor to calcultae engine load. if you intercept this signal, the pcm will think and tune the motor for more or less engine load, wich can cause some mixed results. you cant trick the pcm, in the end it will figure out what has happened and throw codes.

the only usefull thing i can think of doing with something like this is increasing/decreasing timing, or increasing/decreasing injector pulse, both things that are done between the pcm and the distributor/coils or injectors. there are also already things to do this. with a distributor motor, you can just turn the distributor to increase/decrease timing. on a coilpack motor, you can get an msd box and play with the timing. as for injectors, there is lots of stuff you can do. you can get an adjustable fuel regulator and turn the fuel pressure up or down (changes injector flow) or get an injector interceptor, such as a greddy SAFC. however, any add on module is a band-aid for lack of real pcm tuning, and you cant truely change anything to work perfect unless you tune the pcm.

in short, it sounds like you are building a high tech resistor mod that will do the same thing as the resistor.

[aliazhar]

infact, it is a high-tech resistor which is controlled by a microcontroller. and the o2 part of it is also not real values, they taken from o2 sensor and adjusted by the microcontroller...but, both of them will not be fixed values...the value of resistance and o2 data will be varying.

on normal condition, the board will give precise temperature reading due to onboard digital temperature sensor which will not lean the vehicle and give better fuel/air combination by PCM.

i came up with this idea after reading about the resistor hack which in the long run will give bad results and stop working or may damage the car.

i have already tested the device and it does works a lot better then fixing a resistor.

if you have any better ideas to design then you can send it to me and i will start work on it. i am good at circuit designing and micro-controller programming and i just wanted to design something better then a resistor.

again, as i said before, its not a pcm, its just a high-tech resistor with control on o2 sensor. but, the whole device does use data from onboard temperature sensor and the o2 sensor and manipulate it before giving back to PCM.

[Guest]

Wow, a more high tech resistor mod, yeah that'll work. *rolleyes*

I see what it is you are attempting to do, and yes it will change something, but will not increase power, probably won't even reduce it, but what it will change is the weight of the consumers wallet, it'll get lighter, but that's about it.

Even changing the "temp" in relation to actual temp will not gain any power. For this idea to work, making more power would HAVE to be as simple as squirting in more fuel, wel it's much more involved than that, and is dictated by nature and chemical combinations, not soley by what we want out final outcome to be.

If it really was this simple, which in a sense it is, it would be programmed into the ECM/PCM, oh wait it already is. That's why there are these sensors on the engines, to relay the same information that you want to modify in hopes that there will be some sort of power increase.

Even controlling the O2 sensor input to the ECM won't work like you want it to, besides, that presents some other issues.
The O2 control was tried many years ago, there was a product on the maket tha loe you to change many variables, like you suggest, but was mostly centered around O2 sensor manipulation. Most people that used this device destroyed thier engines, because they would lean them out too much.

In short, go ahead and build this controller, put it in your car and dyno befre and after on the same day, you'll see little to no changes in over all HP and probably no change in fuel economy.

Sharky; He's saying "boost" instead of "increase". Not to be confused with "boost" in reference to turbo/supercharger.

[aliazhar]

the good thing is that you made me thinking that this idea is almost fail...and wont take off....

the bad thing is that i did mentioned to all that give me an idea of something which you guys got in your mind...and none of you mentioned anything...

with the telent you all got, you can give an idea of modifying, or making something else which does the same job in the sense of getting most out of car.

anyway, thanks for all your comments...but, still waiting for bright ideas from you all.

Best Regards.

[RacerX11]

Do you work for Caspers?

Marty

[aliazhar]

i dont work for caspers or any1 else....

[StudlyCamaro]

with the telent you all got, you can give an idea of modifying, or making something else which does the same job in the sense of getting most out of car.

anyway, thanks for all your comments...but, still waiting for bright ideas from you all.

bright idea... learn to tune a car's computer for performance, and enable a lean cruise mode in the car's computer, so when you are not at WOT you are running a 14.7 A/F

sensor tricks will get you nowhere, with the ammount of work you are putting into tricking the computer to "boost" the cars performance you could be learning how to properly tune a car's computer

i dont claim to know how to do such things, but i know they are done

[Guest]

the good thing is that you made me thinking that this idea is almost fail...and wont take off....

the bad thing is that i did mentioned to all that give me an idea of something which you guys got in your mind...and none of you mentioned anything...

with the telent you all got, you can give an idea of modifying, or making something else which does the same job in the sense of getting most out of car.

anyway, thanks for all your comments...but, still waiting for bright ideas from you all.

Best Regards.

Go ahead try it, it's going to do nothing for performance.

It has been proven that these sensor tricks, don't work.

But you can waste your time if you want.

All I'm going to suggest about this is, learn how the ECM takes these reading (sensor information) and uses it to adjust the running parameters of the engine/drivetrain, you'll see that changing the resistance of the IAT, or CTS, or othersensors will only prove to be futile or cause teh engine to run poorly.

[aliazhar]

cool...thats the right direction you are showing me.

do any of you have any literature on ECM?....the way they work and the type of signals it process?...

i have a chevrolet 1997 lumina 3.1ls....incase if you have the info of the ecm for this car.

thanks and best regards.

[pezed]

You are never going to achieve 5 horsepower gain. You'll be lucky if you don't loose horsepower.

[Guest]

http://www.diy-efi.org/