nitrogenated tires

[hamondale]

When I got my tires last month at the local big tire chain, they were peddling filling the tires with nitrogen as a way to increase gas mileage. I asked counter boy how that worked and he gave me some load of shit obviously written by the marketing genius who came up with the pitch. (Who's probably getting rich on it... so how smart am I?) I asked him since air is already about 80% nitrogen, why should it make that much difference. So he tried again. I just laughed at him.
Now they're on the radio pitching it, saying it will increase gas mileage 5%. 20 bucks to have your tires filled with pure nitrogen... what a crock. Anybody else come across this one? Gotta go now - I gotta go put some lead into my nanomagnetic lead-to-gold convertor.

[Lyle's GTP]

RE: nitrogenated tires

Do they use a special machine to evacuate all the air then fill the space with 100% nitrogen. It is totaly a big money grab, just like the platinum vapor injector (PVI) system.

Lyle

[Doubt_Incarnate]

tire discouters been doing that for like a year now. they put it in when you buy tires from them. the gimmic is the n2 is bigger mollecules so it cant leak out or something. totaly inert gas so its uneefected by heat, and some other crap. its free from them if you bought the tires there so i get the free n2. ive never had leaky tires that werent fixed by plugging the hole or reseating the tire on the rim though.

[Lyle's GTP]

RE: nitrogenated tires

OK here is the deal so far. It takes a very expecsive machine to fill the tires properly. Their are no benefits for a passenger car. Apparently it is a big F1, Drag, trucking thing and Aircraft also use it. Here is the technical info I have found.

Relivant facts - Because it is an inert gas it won't cause the tire to oxidize too bad from the inside or aluminum rims for that matter. Also less heat accumulation inside the tire.

Why does F1 use it? Because F1 uses the best of everything.

Why do drag cars us it? Same reason as F1, plus it is conveinient to bring to the track.

Why aircraft? Because of cold conditions from excess wind speed, nitrogen contains no water so it has no moisture to freeze inside the tire. Also, for fire safety reasons. Nitrogen will not support a flame.

Why, truckers? Because it preserves the tire longer than air, allowing for multiple retreads.

Bunk facts - The idea that since nitrogen atoms are larger than oxygen atoms, they will "migrate" through the rubber tire slower than oxygen. Ok, air is still 80% nitrogen, so you can still expect to see at least 80% of this benefit. Plus, I think that the bead seal and valve stems are more of a problem than the rubber it's self.

Claiming a 5% increase in fuel mileage is insanity, what factors could possibly give that benefit? Running a tire 20% cooler will not increase your mileage by 5%. We all know running higher pressures will allow better milage and less tread wear. But for example, if you fill you tires with 35 PSI of air and go for a extended drive that pressure will increase to to the thermal expansion of the air, thus increasing your milage and treadlife. But if you roll 35 PSI of nitrogen you have less thermal expansion so wouldn't that give you less milage compared to air? I suppose since it allows the rubber it's self to stay cooler it may allow for less tread wear, due to thermal break down... but that's stretching it.

Plus, who here has ever had a car tire fail from rubber deterioration from the inside out? Nobody, always treadwear, or sidewall cracks, or from curbs, potholes, etc.

Aluminum rim oxidation is not a damaging problem. Aluminum oxidation from air will form a protective film on the surface, that's it. Only chemicals will further degrade aluminum. It is possible for some mildly corrosive chemicals to form in your tire if too much moisture is present. But just make sure your air supply is dry. I would assume that any reputable tire/automotive shop would have an air dryer in line with their system. If they don't they are idiots, and you will have bigger problems on your hands taking your vehical there.

Bottom line a total money grab not worth the effort. A perfect mod for ricers, along with the huge aluminum wing on a front drive car. Or the racing buckets that are for astetics only that have "Not For Race Track Use" stamped right on them.

I'm done. It's friday I need a beer.

Lyle

[RednBlack]

I've heard that filling your tires with helium will make the car 20% lighter, therefore increasing performance 10% and mileage 10%. And by waxing your car with teflon, makes it slide through the air easier, adding another 10% increase. Keeps the bird shit from sticking too! (Where'd I leave that beer?)

[Doubt_Incarnate]

my boss has a norris craft bass boat, he swears its faster when he uses pledge on the hull. he also gets goosebumps up his arms when he thinks about fishing, so i think he's just crazy.

[RidgeRunner]

Yeah, but the drag of water on a bassboat hull at 60mph is tremendous. I imagine something that slicks it up (that wouldn't wash off right away) might help.

[hamondale]

[quote="RidgeRunner"]Yeah, but the drag of water on a bassboat hull at 60mph is tremendous. quote]
I don't know jack about bass fishing, but does a bass boat really have to go 60mph? Those bass must be really fast.

[RidgeRunner]

Haha... that's just about what my dads bassboat will do. Some go faster.

It's about getting TO the fish faster. Especially critical in tournaments where you're on a time limit.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

his goes goes 72mph, but at at 70mph theres berley more than the lower unit in the water. so there cant be that much drag.

[bszopi]

We used to put vegetable oil on the hull of the submarine. Of course, it was to make it look shiny when important people were coming aboard. And it left a hell of a trail in the water...

[SappySE107]

pretty funny cause my friend works at zolman tire and was telling me they are about to get this type setup. He didn't know anything about the gas milage increase, but I guess the chrysler rim have a problem with oxidation where the tire bead is and the inside (the chrome plating anyway). We didnt go too far into conversation on it, but yeah, thats what he read in their literature on the nitrogen, along with it being used in racing and showing dyno results that have nitrogen having an edge on pumping normal air. I guess the machine itself has a filter on it as well so you dont need tanks of nitrogen.

[PlatinumZ34]

i was under the impression that nitrogen was lighter than air. A lighter tire would mean less rotating mass, which would mean less drag on the motor, which based on the size of the tires, could net 5-10% gains in both horsepower and mileage... i should become a marketer...
In all honesty though, I was told nitrogen was lighter than air and in cold conditions won't contract as much as regular air does.

[Q]

I hope most of you guys are still in school.

Think about some of the things you read and write. Air is 78% Nitrogen. The mass (or weight) of "pure" air and "pure" Nitrogen differs by less than 3%. So much for saving weight.

Nitrogen is a diatomic molecule. So is Oxygen. They are almost the same size. Oxygen does not sneak out of tires faster than Nitrogen, leaving the Nitrogen behind. Neither does Carbon Dioxide (another relatively big molecule). Also, if your pressure actually went down a little from these other molecules sneaking off in the dark of night, and you fill the tire with more air, it's going in at ... yes ... 78% Nitrogen. After a few times of doing this, there would be (according to this theory) only Nitrogen left in the tire. Think about it.

Nitrogen follows the gas laws the same as all other gases (including the gasses that make up air). It does not expand and contract less or more.

Nitrogen is pumped into tires from tanks that are intially filled with liquid Nitrogen, which contains no water (in the form of humidity or in any other way). This is the single fact that leads to Nitrogen being used in F1 tires. Air-borne humidity makes temperature-induced pressure changes (caused by water vapor inside the tire) more unpredictable than "dry" Nitrogen. F1 teams are altering pressures in increments of less than 1/4 PSI. It does not take much water vapor to precipitate out of the air to get that kind of change. The pressure in the tires is the SUM of all of the partial pressures of all the gasses in the tire. When water vapor precipitates out, the tire loses the partial pressure that the mass of water "supports." 18cc of water makes 22.4 litres of water vapor.

The Trucking industry uses it for exactly the reason sated above. No oxygen means no oxidation of the tire from the inside. The carcass can be re-skinned ad infinitum. Plus, it can be transported, delivered and dispensed without a compressor system. That saves the truck stops a ton of maintenance and operating money.

Lyle came the closest.

[Lyle's GTP]

Yeah, baby. But the funny thing is that all my info came from the web. Sites talking about the "benefits" of this. They were mostly promoting it. Except a different forum I read in on, they had the real facts. Seems their is alot of misinformation regarding this practice.

Lyle