Can we have a real aftermarket now?

[Doubt_Incarnate]

I know this sites been here for a while. i logged on as the_ripper years back when i started taking my car apart.
couldnt get headers then, still cant, like 4 years later, at least not for a reasonable price. Would it really be that hard to make even a set of tubular exhaust manifolds? granted not as good as headers, but still has to be leaps and bounds better than the "log" (from "Blam-o!") at least it would be more compatible with radical cams. And there really isnt any "development' to those, just weld the tubes together into a collector, not in any particular order, dont have to be equal length, just a better manifold. youd have, what $20-25 in a pair?
and mantapart is still just about the only one to carry any kind of performance mod for our motors. i know there are a few others, but i cant remember them off-hand. cams arent too limited, but the piston selection is pretty gay. like our rod selection too. and there isn't much in the way of forced induction kits. i guess we came to early for the sport compact performance revolution.

[dohcfiend]

RE: Can we have a real aftermarket now?

get to welding then. and to make it easier, there is a site that sells laser cut header flanges for all years of the dohc. umm there are tubular mani's available for the 2.8 from the fiero store but they are ungodly high. milzy carries dohc headers but they are more than what i'd pay. but it isn't like the guy is doing full production runs either and the fabricator has got to get his too.

the main point is one-off shit isn't cheap unless the person making them loves 3.4dohc and is fabricator. but late this year or early next year i am going to focus on headers since the flanges are already available, i just have to find a faricator that does side work and work my negotiating magic. but when i am serious i will make a thread and keep peeps informed. right now i am in the final phases of negotiating a ud pulley set. i have 1 slot open for a beta tester for which i will sell them at cost to. we haven't finished with the wp pulley yet but so far the price is locked in on a alt pulley. the pullies will be available in a variety of sizes depending on several factors. i am not going to do a crank pulley b/c most peeps already have one and i doubt i could even match the prices already out there.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

i just get a little irritated, it just seems that as long as these have been around, and how many are out there, you think someone would cash in on the aftermarket. j-performance i think has headers for 1300 bucks, who would pay that? i know about the sprint manifolds at the fireostore, 500 bucks. and i wouldnt cal the stock fiero manifolds "performance" tubular manifolds. they just seem to be a welded up set of manifolds as opposed to cast, i bet they weigh nothing compared to the ones i got. You dont have to charge 500 for these things, they can be made for a fraction of a fraction of that price. i think s&s has raw headers for 3100 grandams and such, over 300 for raw headers, thats more reasonable, but i dont have a 3100, or a grandam, and that wouldnt work for me if i did have a 3100.
maybe if i ever figure out what im doing with my welder i'll make something, just rig up some better manifolds first, then when i have time try to do some headers and make them available for a hell of a lot less than 500. i know more about 'glass than i do my torch. but 'glass doenst make good underhood stuff.

[dohcfiend]

i know more about 'glass than i do my torch. but 'glass doenst make good underhood stuff.

that's pretty good

well it isn't all materials either it is the fabricators time making them. they charge alot especially at the big shops b/c they could be doing other jobs that pay more. well at least that is the line i hear anyways.

milzy's headers are $450 ($600 for ceramic coated)i don't know if that is in your budget or not. aaronz34 had headers but i don't think he took orders.

me personally id spend up to $350 for a set of headers b/c i don't think equal length is an option for the w-body(esp the auto ones) without using that torch.

[Cliff8928]

Just among other things, i happened to come across this site..

http://www.cefabshop.com/default.asp

This might be a choice for some add-ons to be custom made, we could do a group buy

[geoffinbc]

I like having limited support. It keeps the bolt on modifiers out. I like going to the track and people looking at my truck and saying "What engine is that. It doesn't look like a 4.3L"

Well genious there are other engines on the planet besides smallblocks and little sisters of smallblocks. Plus I am still right on par with every brand new 4.3L vortec that rolls off the lot. So if my measly 3.4L with old fashion TBI fuel delivery is dusting them off then im happy. Oh and I still get beter gas milage too.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

granted the rwd support is much better than the fwd, and yes i like the making of parts for my car, sometimes. CAI are easy enough, even shortening shifter throw, or a one-off shifter itself, though more involved, is still withing the realm of a one night project, but im not going to try to make up some differnt gear ratios for my fwd tranny. i've modified differentials in r/c cars to a LSD before, but this is a whole other kind of power.

I suppose it is better this way, since it does weed out the fast&furious crowd, except those whose parents have money and buy them everything.
i suppose ingenuity is what seperates us from the ricers.

[SappySE107]

If anyone wants headers, ill be working on making sets for various 60V6 applications, ranging from simple bolt in for performance to the best headers I can make performance wise but you have to move shit around in the engine bay. I got plans, and now the space so its just a matter of getting cars in and seeing what fits.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

since you havea kick ass site thats been most helpfull, i'd be willing to take you up on that, but since my car is also immobile right now...

it would be a few months, since once i have it running it would be hard to part with for a while.

since i seem to do alright with 'glass i'm thinking of making door and fenders when i get situated next year.

[Jack_96Lumina]

I like having limited support.

This line alone is not a good sign.

Competition brings better products at better prices. The last thing you guys should be worrying about is the ricers wipping around in a 60*V6s... and more concerned about the "mods" that actually make the car perform better. If said ricers buy headers... does that make them any ricier? If anything I give them a thumbs up for actually wanting to give that fartcan some purpose. I am in no way sticking up for the ricer community, but I do believe when more than one company decides to make very similar products they have to battle it out through quality and price. In my other community, for the VR4, there is a very limited amount of manufacturers for parts. The few that are around, can charge whatever they want for their parts. Headers for my car are anywhere from 1500 - 3000... a front mount is over 3k w/ pipes... I can get the same FMIC w/o pipes for 250 on e-bay... and spend the other 2750 on pipes, custom exhaust, boost controller, and bigger turbos. I don't blame you for not wanting "certain types" flooding the streets with their pimp rides... but I don't see that happening if the market is composed of performance parts. Do you know how sick I am when a base model 3000GT drives by with fartcans, a huge wing, and 222hp??? I pay 2x as much in insurance, 2x as much in gas, and make 2x the power... but the cars are both 3000GTs.

Since this post is getting kinda lenghty I will quit on one last comment. Ricers started off in Civics. Economy car pieces of crap that were slow as balls and ugly as hell. More and more kids wanted to have a civic, lower it, put a system in the hatch and make it fart like no tomorrow... but then came the performance market. The ricers now wanted to go faster... Honda parts are so cheap, and so reliable because the market became flooded with companies that wanted in on the action. Turbos, exhausts, blocks... everything immaginable... is available for one of the cheapest cars in America... all because someone decided to give a tin can some more UMPH. 350-400 WHP in a civic is no easy task... but if done correctly, and with the right combination of parts can be done quite cheaply. And for those of you who don't know, 400WHP in a civic thats got decent suspension is easy 10s. Thats 400WHP out of 2 liters or less. That is the kind of market we need if we want this platform to go anywhere... if your worried about rice... don't. People who know its rice, are the ones that will respect your car that much more.

[geoffinbc]

Well if all these parts become avalible then all our ingenuity is lost. We take pride in making our own parts rather than buying them off Summit Racing.

Taking a peak at a smallblock chevy will yield a whole host of parts. Also taking parts from a junkyard off a 2000+ 3400 and swapping the whole top end over or better yet taking the whole motor and droping it into a light cavalier or fiero and pulling off some 14's is what makes it unique. Also GM has a whole parts bin of things you can add to your 660. Heck there is even an upgrade motor avalible for old pickups which has only ever been done for Big Block Retro upgrades. Also keep in mind the 660 is used is more chevy cars and vans than any other V6. With the 2 new Series of 660's comming out I am sure we will se more aftermarket. But I still hope it stays as it is now.

I can't wait to see the first 3900 in a Cavalier.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

he said fart....

i know some people call "ricers" dressed up, or home dressed cars that want to go fast, but dont. i use the term for most imports. there inst anything wrong with a carpet queen, nor is there anythign wrong with a can that goes 0-60 in 5. its cool if you can get a fully dressed carpet queen to 60 in 5. nothing wrong with imports, i really, really, really, want a R33 Skyline GTR AWD. We just have to work for our mods, on ebay for $500 or less you can put puleys, header, CAI, adj FPR, and cam gear on a 92-95 civic. for us to do that we have to fabricate most of it.

Ironicaly, some of those kids are so dumb, if they took 1 min to look at thier v-tec civic's exhuast manifold, they would see its just a cast iron header. to put a header on that car would be throwing the $100 out the window, unless you really want to drop the weight, but its in front of the front axle, so it could potentialy hurt traction.

[SappySE107]

I look at it this way. I would rather have solid companies making products with the numbers to back them up. Having been around for a while, I have seen some companies that aren't doing quality work or at times even in the know have free reign of the community because there was no competition. I totally agree with enjoying the level of uniqueness this engine platform offers to modders. Its kept things interesting over the years and I don't expect that to change too dramatically from having companies such as mine offer packages and parts not available (like header options, not just a few companies making the same basic design).

There are a lot of people with these motors that don't have the time, desire, or patience to make the mods themselves and do all the research to find the best setup. I bet there are plenty of car owners still experimenting with their own ideas. Hell, i have read some crazy head porting ideas in magazines with good results. Competition helps make the aftermarket better, but it still takes the reasearch to improve. I think thats pretty much what this site is for, sharing ideas and projects.

This topic interests me a lot because ive been doing a lot of thinking about my role on this site vs my role with my business.

[Jack_96Lumina]

I completely agree QUALITY > * but say the company selling the product doesn't really plan on making the product better. They have no reason to. Who else is selling this product? Where else will the consumer turn? When company B shows up with the same part that makes x hp more... you better believe company A will be busting its ass trying to improve its current design, or dropping the price of the design that is now dated.

Making your own parts and fabbing up your own gadgets is great for people with time on their hands and a machine shop in the garage... for those of us who use the 660 as a winter car, I want something to bolt on, and make Buffalo winters a little more exciting. Bald tires and the e-brake keep it interesting, but not being able to keep up in a straight line isn't quite as fun.

Point of this thread - Where is the aftermarket? From what I have seen so far, there isn't much of one.

BTW - 14s don't excite me much... :P

[Doubt_Incarnate]

there are just some mods that some of us know are way over our head. and some that aren't. i dont mind paying for convience, like if there was a set of headers out there for a couple hundred, even if they needed a little fittment id go for it. I dont get much in the electronics dept. so i'd pay for chips and what not, Intakes are just tubing, and it doesnt have to be any specifc size, shape, length etc, so thats simple, just make it equal to or bigger than yout tb and run it to a cool spot, put a filter on and its done.

i guess headers are the biggest thing, since there are so many 660 fwd's, and so many manufactures. even pacesetter (granted they are generaly laughed at) doesnt put out a set for the fwd's. thats somehing that takes time to plan out and skill to assemble. and the shmoe working 40+ hrs is going to come home and still feel like doing that? i get off at 10 or later most times, i dont feel like rolling in the garage after i run around like a dumbass all day at work, after all, working on cars ist relaxing. often times they are frustrating when the piece obviously goes there, but wont.

i'd like to see a 10:1 drop in piston, where you dont have to mill this, and bore that, deck here, and if something goes wrong, your at the bore limit, so here's a new block...

just things most people cant do, or would rather not do.