Hmmm....DOHC VS Pushrod...

[Guest]

We are all less educated for reading the last post

Agreed.

Proof is in the pudding, put up or shut up.

Aaron whil eyou say you have what it takes to match my times, that's fine, there is a shit load more in my combination that is yet untapped, my times are from teh intial shake down runs....

This year, watch for falling times.....

So in closing Aaron, until you have proof GTFO!!

[bmlawson]

:wtf1: no license? you gonna come to the meet? oh i quess not with no license.

[TheProfessor]

damn i love this site always something jumping off
anyway pushrod over DOHC for sure for all the reasons alreday stated
and also because if you have room for an LQ1 just put a v8 in there

[SappySE107]

Prove to me cams are the limiting factor...and regrinds are questionable. Whats funny is I didn't see anything showing how the DOHC cams are not keyed, so it has the advantage of custom overlap without regrinds.

Frictional losses? Why not skip the theory and just compare power to weight, or power to displacement.

Space is the only concern I would ever have with the LQ1. The pushrod fits in almost anything. Weight, only if power potential doesn't really matter and you just want to autocross in a class that isn't very modified.

I enjoy reading these threads...with someone claiming something, and someone else talking about what they are gonna do. How about we stop posting this wannabe bullshit and just do it?

[dbtk2]

I would rather not post it. It is floating over at W-body and PFF, they they can appretiate what might be without bringing it down and doubting it, but I am hoping for over 400hp, and hopefully right at 400 to the wheels. This will all be done at a max of 8,000rpm, and for now stock cams. It probably won't make 400 with factory cams, but that estimate is with custom cams.

You do know that 400whp is ~470hp at the engine with a 5 speed, right??? If so, I really want to see this done N/A without revving over 8k, especially with stock cams. But even without stock cams, I would still be amazed.

Shawn

[v6h.o.]

I think high 13s are the fastest time posted by a FWD 660 N/A so far. And I believe I am the fastest N/A FWD TDCammer, and all the evidence to support it puts me in the high 13s, but I have yet to actually run it. And I have basic bolt ons (and headers...still bolt on, but custom), and a pretty much stock inside, compared to Colin and them's cars, which go much farther on the insides.

What has been done on the INSIDE of my block??

Comp Cams 212/212 duration camshaft, Comp Cams 1.6:1 roller tip rockers.

Not at all a big camshaft.
the rest is all STOCK, and still only a hair under 3.2L's. 3100 small valve heads from a 96, just some porting. Aaron dont talk about my engine like its something huge and special, its not. its basically a "junkyard jewl" type setup, how fast can i go on what is available cheap and stock.

[v6h.o.]

I enjoy reading these threads...with someone claiming something, and someone else talking about what they are gonna do. How about we stop posting this wannabe bullshit and just do it?

Exactly...
Thats why you only see threads by people like myself about my times and after i've done something.

:P
"Run your Car not your mouth"

[Guest]

I think high 13s are the fastest time posted by a FWD 660 N/A so far. And I believe I am the fastest N/A FWD TDCammer, and all the evidence to support it puts me in the high 13s, but I have yet to actually run it. And I have basic bolt ons (and headers...still bolt on, but custom), and a pretty much stock inside, compared to Colin and them's cars, which go much farther on the insides.

What has been done on the INSIDE of my block??

Comp Cams 212/212 duration camshaft, Comp Cams 1.6:1 roller tip rockers.

Not at all a big camshaft.
the rest is all STOCK, and still only a hair under 3.2L's. 3100 small valve heads from a 96, just some porting. Aaron dont talk about my engine like its something huge and special, its not. its basically a "junkyard jewl" type setup, how fast can i go on what is available cheap and stock.

I'm thinking te same thing about mine, I have the 260-2 cam, even smaller then yours, the rest is stock or stock replacment parts. HAHAHA

IBaaronrodethespecialbustoschool

[Anonymous]

Comp Cams 212/212 duration camshaft, Comp Cams 1.6:1 roller tip rockers.

That is what I meant. I didn't say it was huge or special, I said it went much farther on the insides than mine, which it does. It has a performance cam, and roller rockers, and head porting. My car underneath the cam/valve covers is stock, except for a slight bump in compression.

My motor is torn down rigth now, and I will begin getting parts and putting it together as soon as my white car is gone.

[SappySE107]

Ok, back on topic. I read the linked thread....omg.

"With moderate head work, cams and compression a 3400 can do the close to the same. 275-325 hp "

FUCK NO! prove it, cause I don't see that happening. Cams? I thought the 3400 had 1 cam. I don't know what moderate port work is but that means you are saying with excellent head porting you can get over that range.

"My biggest point is....for the increase in wieght (especially at the top of the motor) and relatively weak block i still dont see the 'DOHC advantage' not to mention having to cut the deck hinges and so on."

Weak block? Off the crack pipe, its a reinforced block with the lifter area filled in. Thats stronger than the gen 2 block by far, and at least on par with gen 3 if not stronger because of the lifter area. Deck hinges....must be a fiero thing.

[Anonymous]

Yah it is, and they take 5min to fix so that the DOHC fits. It is the least of the worries for the swap.

[PlatinumZ34]

There is also teh fact that engines have been making gobs of HP with pushrods for years, the basic technology and ideas are out there.

DOHC just has the "OMG!" effect.

So basically we should sell every engine made in the last 15 years and go buy a 1968 428 big block to throw in because they have been making gobs of power for years and therefore are superior.

Here's my problem with these "factual" comments. We have pushrod guys pretending they know everything about DOHC and DOHC guys saying they know everything about... everything :P.

What would I personally like to mod??? A 302 pushrod from ford. Because as raven said, the technology is there and they can easily make gobs of power, like i throw 1200 bucks at that engine and i'll be making over 300hp.

What would i like someone else with more know how than me to mod? A DOHC, because I believe they have alot more potential than a pushrod engine, will we ever know... yes in a few years when "the technology gets there". You know, flat heads used to be the best thing on the market, and by the time they got replaced, they were making gobs of power too... But there was always the crowd who wanted to stick to flatheads, they made more power for the first few years... i think we know where that ended up.. I'll now direct your attention to 1.7 liter Honda DOHC engines making more power than your daddies camaro.

IF we're going to compare engines, lets compare facts. Not beak aaron, not compare 1/4 mile times... (a Z34 is SLIGHTLY heavier than a cavalier, or anything aaron says he's raced for that matter)... no im not supporting aaron making claims without proof. But what I am saying, is lets look at some other limiting factors, lets compare engines, not cars/size of your pocket.

(and i will now go stab myself for saying anything positive about honda)

[SappySE107]

I think I know a bit about pushrods:P

[Guest]

So basically we should sell every engine made in the last 15 years and go buy a 1968 428 big block to throw in because they have been making gobs of power for years and therefore are superior.

That's not what I said, all I was getting at was the fact that it has yet to be proven, without a shadow of a doubt that OHC engines are in any way shape, form or stretch oif the imagination superior to pushrod engines, thsi debate is just like Chevy VS Ford, it will go on for years.

The only thing I was really trying to point out was that from my understanding the 3400 can make as much or almost as much power as the 3.4 DOHC did in the same year of production, namely 1996, the 3400 has been dynoed to provide 180+ HP to the wheels in certain vehicles, which equates to over 200 HP at the crank, while the DOHC made about 220 HP at the crank, all at less over cost and "lower efficiancy" according to some people. I don't recall the RPMs these occured at, but I'm sure the pushrod was lower, meaning more usable for daily/street driving.

DOHC opens up higher reving engines, due to lighter mass of the actuated valve train parts, although that is debatable, due to new or rather different materials being used to make, which throws the weight factor out the window for the most part, everybody can make/buy a lighter part.

Hey I'll admit that I do like the theory behind DOHC, I took a serious look at building a pushrod 4V/cyl 3400, it would have been a true 3400 DOHC, but due to a few factors, mostly being that the intake pushrod would pass directly through the intake port, I decided that I'll just stick with the 2V design.

[Wolf]

Wow, more infighting here than at a redneck-hick dinner table...
anyways, yes the dohc has more rotating mass,but, very little reciprocating(sp) mass compared to the pushrod