Aaron's Z34 vs TGPilot's Talon TSi

[weisinator]

I wasn't going to break out the flame thrower since I'm technically a n00b over here, but you make it too easy.

About the injectors, LT1 Camaros are running 275-285hp, and they only have 16s or 18s IIRC

LT1s use 23# injectors, but eight of them, not six.

Only 6??? Dang I didn't know that, I guess they have just a single one feed the two intake valves that are side by side?

I know eight year olds with better reading comprehension skills than yours.

Where did I say LT1s had six injectors?

Where did I say the LT1 had dual intake valves?

I said the LT1 had eight 23# injectors, not six 23# injectors like your motor has.

If you're just trying to be clever and "own" me, you suck at it.

Just typically V8s have small injectors, and V6 meduim, and 4 bangers have large injectors.

Injector size has everything to do with delivering the amount of fuel needed for a stoichometric mix based on the amount of oxygen delivered to the cylinder during open intake valve events, nothing to do with the number of cylinders. I don't care how "typical" the engine is.

This place is chock full of knowledgable people. Too bad you choose to ignore them.

[gpse3400]

Not for nothing but unlike the 60deg the LT1 actually uses most of the fuel that the injectors can offer. Also have you ever thought... maybe "DAD"was being nice and letting you win? Because if it isn't that, then his engine is in need of a PM because if you seriously think that a car that weighs the same as yours with close to 300 friggen HP and well over 300 ft lbs of torque is NOT Going To Clean Your Clock And VAPORIZE YOUR CHEAPO CAR THE YOU HAVE ANOTHER THING COMMING! You are so delusional...YOU'LL NEED A CRAP LOAD OF HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE BEFORE YOU COULD EVER TOUCH THAT CAR! Hell that car running on regular gas will suck you up and spit you out! That engine isn't even trying very hard. And LIKE, mind you LIKE, street racing is just LIKE plain usless in LIKE trying to determine anything. DUH!!!

Recap
EuroTrash Lumina z34
3400-3500 lbs
210hp@5,200
215tq@4,000,000
FWD Standard Shift
FWD open diff w/215or 225 6016

Award Winning LT1 Camaro
3400-3500 lbs
2hundred friggen 85hp@5,000
325ft lbs@2,500
RWD Stardard shift with double OD, Hotchkis Driveline
RWD LSD with 245 50 16 tires

Even with your "current alterations" it still doesn't add up. I swear this crap is not going to stop till arron stops fucking up.

[Streetrodder83]

He didn't say there are 2 intakes per cylinder, but that they are side by side, which is how a SBC head is cast. If 3 engines , a 4,6,8 all making the same level of horsepower the 4 cyl will have a higher demand for fuel per cylinder than will the 8 cyl. As far as him being able to beat the TSi at sea level that is possible or make it a closer race. Lest everyone forget that a turbo is the only from of supercharging that will compensate for altitude. So if the TSi is set to boost to 15 psi it will do so no matter what the altitude. At a higher altitude it will just take longer to get there than at sea level.

[vsop4me3.1]

I wish I had that kind of unfounded optimism. 23# injectors supporting 300hp. I guess its possible but im not buying it without the dyno sheet and the injector load/AF ratios. Yeah, you get on my ass about some numbers...my turn.

Aaron,
while your home for the holidays why don't you take your car to a dyno and get some accurate #'s, becuase until then everybody who has some sense is gonna call bullshit

[robby1870]

EuroTrash Z34, classic!!!!!!

[weisinator]

If 3 engines , a 4,6,8 all making the same level of horsepower the 4 cyl will have a higher demand for fuel per cylinder than will the 8 cyl.

True. But "Similar horsepower" wasn't a condition in his comparison. He said "just typically".

Upon further review, it looks like he wasn't trying to be a smartass, just asking a question, but judging by other posts of his one can't be sure.

[PlatinumZ34]

Dude... I raced my cousins 95 T/A with the 6 spd LT1... we were door to door till (my)third gear at which point he pulled about 8 car lengths (or more) on me... i had bad plugs/injectors but still. later on i blew past him (he kept flooring it, but his car starts to sputter and stall out at around 200 at full throttle (at the time), whereas the Z doesn't sputter and is strong to 240). (kilometers an hour )

As for the vids, the camera added extra weight in the TSi, the races weren't fair . Seriously though when you say buzzsaw your right, cause i dont like the way it sounds... but... anyways, good tight race, definately get that thing dyno'd i wanna see what kind of numbers its pushing.

Im not calling bullshit on 300hp, although with your list of mods i dont know if its possible or not, but hey, and also im not about to call bullshit on beating the LT1 those motors/tranny's tend to have good days and bad days...

[GPXSS]

interesting read..

[RednBlack]

We get to have another poll?

[Rhedalert]

Not for nothing but unlike the 60deg the LT1 actually uses most of the fuel that the injectors can offer. Also have you ever thought... maybe "DAD"was being nice and letting you win? Because if it isn't that, then his engine is in need of a PM because if you seriously think that a car that weighs the same as yours with close to 300 friggen HP and well over 300 ft lbs of torque is NOT Going To Clean Your Clock And VAPORIZE YOUR CHEAPO CAR THE YOU HAVE ANOTHER THING COMMING! You are so delusional...YOU'LL NEED A CRAP LOAD OF HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE BEFORE YOU COULD EVER TOUCH THAT CAR! Hell that car running on regular gas will suck you up and spit you out! That engine isn't even trying very hard. And LIKE, mind you LIKE, street racing is just LIKE plain usless in LIKE trying to determine anything. DUH!!!

Recap
EuroTrash Lumina z34
3400-3500 lbs
210hp@5,200
215tq@4,000,000
FWD Standard Shift
FWD open diff w/215or 225 6016

Award Winning LT1 Camaro
3400-3500 lbs
2hundred friggen 85hp@5,000
325ft lbs@2,500
RWD Stardard shift with double OD, Hotchkis Driveline
RWD LSD with 245 50 16 tires

Even with your "current alterations" it still doesn't add up. I swear this crap is not going to stop till arron stops fucking up.

CLASSIC!!!! LOLOLOLOL!

[dbtk2]

Aaron, like I said on the w-body forum, I am slightly impressed by how well your car runs in that vid. But you do ~20-110 in 25 seconds, I hate to break it to you, but thats not really that fast. According to my G-tech, on the worst run I've done since I did my topend, I went 0-110 in 17.9 seconds, that was with a passenger in the car (180lbs), both our schoolbooks & a car battery in the back seat (~50lbs), and my normal 50+lbs. worth of tools and misc. parts in the trunk, and on 8.5psi. There is no way your Z34 hangs with an LT1 Camaro, and there is also no way its making 300hp. My STE has 22lb. injectors, they are way maxed out (which is why I only run 8.5psi on the street) and I would guess my car is only making 280hp, actually probably a little less.

LT1s use 23# injectors, but eight of them, not six.

Actually, they are 24#. Not that it makes much difference, but thats what they are. I read the numbers before, IIRC they were capable of making around 44hp per cylinder...I could be wrong though. So lets say Aarons injectors are capable of the same amount...thats well under 300hp with 6 cylinders even with increased fuel pressure, etc...

Shawn

[SappySE107]

at WOT they are about 26#, since WOT should be close to 49 PSI. This varies between cars though as some dont have 43 PSI at idle, which is the pressure the GM injectors are rated at.

[PlatinumZ34]

215tq@4,000,000

Ahahaha ya thats about right.

[Guest]

Hmm, lets think about this, faster at any elevation is stil faster, so if someone is faster at 1200 feet, then they will still be faster at sea level...

Aaron do you ever try to think before saying shit?

What are you talking about? His TGP beat me up here, as did his TSi, I beat his TGP at near sea level badly, I'll do the same to his TSi.
How else do you explain him pulling multiple car lengths up here, and both cars, in the EXACT same condition, going down and me beating him by that much?

Yah I think it makes 280-300hp, in that range. I pull a car length or more on a LT1 6-speed, which has better gearing, more tq, and way less miles(40k vs 134k), but also has more drivetrain loss. As for sea level tuning, I think that the factory setup will be able to compensate enough, basically I don't think that my KR or air/fuels will be beyond what the factory ECU can't fix, but who knows, maybe maybe not. It won't be going to sea level under my ownership.

Can someone really be that stupid to not comprehend that BOTH vehicles will get faster at sea level?

[Anonymous]

I like the way it sounds, and for some reason it really is a lot deeper than in the video. Just as loud, if not louder, but deeper perse.

I drive my dad's LT1 Camaro almost everyday. I've done more donuts in it than Jeff Gordon. I've had the car to 6400rpm(indicated), on a few occasions. I know that car like the back of my hand. I have never missed a gear, and when i race it, I race it hard, just like I do my Z. If I say my Z will beat it, it will. I know what the LT1 is capable of, and I know how they run stock. It isn't that fast. Can you agree that a 350Z can beat a LT1 Camaro? If not, look at 1/4mi. 13.8/9 for a 350Z 6M, 14.1 for the LT1 6-speed. And I have a timeslip showing me beating a 350Z by 2 tenths. And he had drag radials.

Let's compare my "Eurotrash Z34" to my dad's "heartbeat of America Camaro" shall we? It has 44,000 miles on it, and has been well taken care of with fully synthetic oil every 3,000. It is a very nice car, far better than most Z28s I've seen. Since picking it up for $10,000 a year ago, with about 36,000miles on it, we've had to put more money into it than we bought it for. First it was the ABS module, and $1600 later, the ABS worked again. Then it was the clutch. 2.000miles after the new clutch, the throwout bearing goes bad(not exactly a unique problem either). 1500 miles after replacing the throwout bearing, we had to have the tranny rebuilt, with new 2nd, 5th, 6th, and Reverse gears/synchros. ALL AT LESS THAN 50,000 MILES!!! So hotchkiss or whatever can kiss my ass, becuz at 134,000 miles, HARD miles, my little Getrag FWD open diff still shifts smooth and perfect,except for the second gear synchro, but for what I did to that, the LT'1 6-speed would have been lying in the middle of the intersection, yet I still have all 5(6) gears, and with double clutching I can catch 2nd without even grinding it. My car, running at 108mph on cruise control, for over 1200 miles with AC on the entire way to El Paso Texas, I didn't have one issue, except for the ticket. And that doesn't account for my occasional(5 times or so), sprints to 130. My dads "piece of American heritage," ran on cruise control 70mph for 700 miles, and broke down 3 times. Overheated twice, and it lost 1st, 3rd, and 5th gears the third time. And I'm postive that my dad didn't go over 70(limited at 110). Now let's look at my "eurotrash" engine, whose heads outflow the LT1's on both intake and exhaust. I am making my max power around 6,000, but there is minimal drop off to 7 and even beyond to 7100. And my eurotrash driveline is much more efficient as well, both becuz it is open and that my axles are weightless(10lbs maybe), and short(24" max pass side, 8" driver. True I blew my motor at 124k, but for what I was doing to that motor and from previous neglect, I had it coming. My ABS still works, and the car brakes well(as far as W-bodys go...) Car as never even come close to overheating, and I haven't had one issue form my eurotrash Getrag tranny.

I'm sick of defending my car, I know its faster, that's enough. No matter what I say, you all will call BS. I could show you dyno sheets, timeslips(I have 3), or videos, you'll still call BS. His TSi was 2 car lengths ahead of me, and his buddy(I also had a passenger) said that the TSi would run even with, if not beat, the friend's WS6 Trans Am. And those pull significantly stronger than the Lt1 I think...Yet I was 2 car lengths back at 120, and that is a lot closer than the 1.2+ seconds back that the LT1 is by 90.