2nd Worst day of my life

[dykz34]

Umm, you are reading my posts too deeply... I think that you are coming up with your HP figures by the "noob mentality". You can't figure them by simply adding "supposed" numbers, like 5hp from an air filter, 10hp from a pulley, and 20hp from headers. It does not always equal 35hp. The gains of each mod will be seen to their fullest potential on a BONE stock motor.

I still don't understand why the intake will add so much power... the intakes on this motor aren't THAT bad. Plus, is it really worth the loss of all torque to gain XXhp?

Regarding your headers, no offense, but if they work "so well" why did you only gain two tenths with them?

[Anonymous]

I'm not just adding all of this. I am taking into account a 65 wheel horsepower gain with a box bolted onto the LIM. Now consider that I have slightly longer runners, straight shot runners into the cylinders, no resistance in throttle bodies, etc.

The gains of each mod will be seen to their fullest potential on a BONE stock motor.

That is totally incorrect. My headers will gain a lot more hp on a 3.4 with my intake than they did on the stock motor. It's common sense, the more air the engine is pulling in faster with the intake, the more it has to get rid of.

How do you figure the intakes aren't that bad? Did bowtiekid go through the trouble of cutting one open and going postal on it becuz he had nothing better to do? I doubt it. The intakes/cams was where GM cut the motor from 285 to 210 in the first place. That guy ran, and made power, all the way to 7600rpm with STOCK cams. Where as the stock motor fell off after 5500. Look at that guy's dyno sheets, do they lie? So far you are going off of nothing. You have no proof that the intakes are good from the factory. Until you really put an intake on the car, you have no way of knowing. This guy did, and it spoke to me in clear English that this is where the motor is held up.

As for my "2 tenths," you are going off of altitude corrections. Let's not do that anymore since they aren't accurate. The onyl person who has proven that headers are good for the DOHC was kickinZ. He ran at the exact same track. It really makes me want to drive all the way out to MO again. And not like you'd know, but the track that I ran my 15.2 at isn't exactly a track that I'd want to run ym car at. It is uphill for the first half, in fact of the 3 sticks I drove there, all rolled back on the line. Then you hit a bump in the middle and it goes flat.

[dykz34]

The gains of each mod will be seen to their fullest potential on a BONE stock motor.

That is totally incorrect. My headers will gain a lot more hp on a 3.4 with my intake than they did on the stock motor. It's common sense, the more air the engine is pulling in faster with the intake, the more it has to get rid of.

I'll admit, I worded that wrong...

How do you figure the intakes aren't that bad? Did bowtiekid go through the trouble of cutting one open and going postal on it becuz he had nothing better to do? I doubt it.

Then that's why he sold it and put on 96 intakes?

intakes/cams was where GM cut the motor from 285 to 210 in the first place.

That's bullshit, where is your proof?

So far you are going off of nothing. You have no proof that the intakes are good from the factory. Until you really put an intake on the car, you have no way of knowing.

Don't go running around thinking I haven't pulled an intake off the car before in my life... as a matter of fact, I have a complete 97 topend on my 5spd car...

As for my "2 tenths," you are going off of altitude corrections. Let's not do that anymore since they aren't accurate.

Fair enough.

And not like you'd know, but the track that I ran my 15.2 at isn't exactly a track that I'd want to run ym car at. It is uphill for the first half, in fact of the 3 sticks I drove there, all rolled back on the line. Then you hit a bump in the middle and it goes flat.

Not that YOU would know, but I have ran at PMI...

[Anonymous]

How do you figure the intakes aren't that bad? Did bowtiekid go through the trouble of cutting one open and going postal on it becuz he had nothing better to do? I doubt it.

Then that's why he sold it and put on 96 intakes?

Becuz it didn't give him the power that he was looking for. IIRC, he lost 15 ft lbs and gained 5hp. But even with the upper intake gutted, the runners are still longer than I'd want, and they are still small.

intakes/cams was where GM cut the motor from 285 to 210 in the first place.

That's bullshit, where is your proof?

Where is your proof that it isn't? Where else could it be? We have determined it wasn't with computer tuning. The heads are already flirting with perfection, Ben himself has said the porting on them isn't that involved and he doesn't 'port' them perse, he more polishes them and removes rough parts. So the only other place it can be is with the intakes, the cams, and the exhaust. Now putting the catback on my car did very little for performance, but that was when I sitll had manifolds and was basically stock. Headers did a lot, but not 75hp of course. So that leaves us with either cams or intakes, and as that guy proved, it was both.

So far you are going off of nothing. You have no proof that the intakes are good from the factory. Until you really put an intake on the car, you have no way of knowing.

Don't go running around thinking I haven't pulled an intake off the car before in my life... as a matter of fact, I have a complete 97 topend on my 5spd car...

We have also determined that the 96-97 intakes are better. We knwo this already. But they are still factory intakes, and still aren't good. They are just better.

And not like you'd know, but the track that I ran my 15.2 at isn't exactly a track that I'd want to run ym car at. It is uphill for the first half, in fact of the 3 sticks I drove there, all rolled back on the line. Then you hit a bump in the middle and it goes flat.

Not that YOU would know, but I have ran at PMI...

Well than I am sorry your car had to go there, it is far too pretty of a car to be at that track. And I'm sure you can agree with me on every point I made about it. Did your car creep forward there? The auto Z24 I drove wouldn't even creep at the line when my feet were off the gas and off the brake. What did you run at PMI? You got the pic of the slip?

[SappySE107]

hahaha, oh no, i do a hell of a lot more to the heads than you think. Sure, I do offer to port them less than I did mine...but even then its not like I dont open things up. I just know that hogging out the intake side is poor practice. I also stopped sharing all the things I have found out because of my business and the competition I have.

How did GM lower performance? Well, cam timing, intake manifolds, probably the exhaust manifolds, compression, probably stiffer valve springs since that is what they like to do to limit power, and then after that, tuning. My current setup of ported heads, cam timing, UD pulley, lighter lifters, and chip really woke the motor up. Headers would be awesome for it, and the custom plenum and then the ported lower to match it all up will be a lot nicer. I wont make any guesses at all on power though simply because I have no clue. I don't think you do either really, cause no one has done the intake setup you are talking about.

The stock plenum sucks, but the runners aren't 30" long, I think it was 19" from valve to runner opening in the plenum. 91-95 runners open up for a tunnel ram type setup as well, and michael told me the 96 runners aren't like that. I haven't had a 96 setup to really check out though so I can't say for sure. I just know that my setup is gonna rival yours for end results considering I won't be hurting my low end near as bad as yours, and it should still pull hard up top. I am not spending near the money you are either.

[Anonymous]

Rival mine? Maybe, but then I'll hit 5,000rpm, then 8, thern slam it into 2nd!

lol. Yah there are a bunch of ways, I just had some money at the time, and I wanted it to be the best. And it will be. For racing.

Yah I know you do a lto to the heads, that is why you may someday get mine. If I win the lottery a few times. But what I was trying to say is that the stock setup isn't that bad. Hell someguy bought P&P heads for his SHO, ran at the dyno, and only gained 12hp and 4 ft lbs.

I disagree with the valve springs. Ours start to float right at 7200 so I've heard. Therefore any weaker would've allowed the motor to rev faster, but not rev past say 6500. And I know us 5-speeds like that redline.

[TheProfessor]

mmm popcorn

[SappySE107]

so you heard. Guess what aaron, you heard wrong. The 96 engines have 160 pounds springs, 20# less than 91. They also go up to 6750. The guy with the fiero and the box intake, his wasn't floating, it was a bad spark plug wire (so i heard...from nico who talked to the guy).

You can speculate all you want about how awesome your intake setup will be, and I can speculate how well mine will work. What we can't do is prove a damn thing, which is why im not talking out my ass about it. I do know how the stock intake looks, and how the plenum area itself looks and that transition. The runners are fine how they are, and in fact going too much shorter isn't ideal for street use. If you are making a race only motor, I hardly think its worth comparing to what im doing. I can make a race motor as well and put it in a go cart and kill myself but that doesn't make it practical for what I wanna do.

Comparing head porting without knowing any science or reason behind porting itself means shit to me. I have seen heads that a guy spent big money on (he posts here) and felt sorry for him. I could only see parts of the intake port, but just from that not only were they not even, they weren't even really done that much. If you don't know what you are doing, you won't get much power. If you think are stock castings are "good", your definition of good and my definition are very different. They are ok. They flow, but they should because they have a lot of valve surface area as they sit.

We can make judgement on your work after you finish it and get it running. Its not going anywhere till you tune it though, thats a given.

[Anonymous]

We can make judgement on your work after you finish it and get it running. Its not going anywhere till you tune it though, thats a given.

Ok than we will see. If everything goes right, I should have a dyno at X-mas time. Then I can dyno it after the intake, but that will be in a Fiero, with different headers and exhaust. But the headers compared to my current ones shouldn't be more than 10hp in difference. I think I am goign to keep the dimensions i have, even though instincts are wanting me to go with 1 3/4 primaries, 2.5" collectors, and a 3" exhaust.

I was also thinking the 92 motors when i was talking about valve springs. Maybe if I get some guts, I will run mine past 7 on the stock springs and see when they start to float. I am unfamiliar with valve float however, what does it sound like? Will the motor not rev past the point when they start floating? I know what it is, just not what it does. Will it hurt my motor?

This also means getting my limiter cut off. Dang. shipping

[dykz34]

I disagree with the valve springs. Ours start to float right at 7200 so I've heard.

See Aaron, this is your problem. You are basing EVERYTHING you say off of what "you've heard". We've all read the bullshit "281hp DOHC" page, and SOME of us are smart enough to use our heads and say: "hey, that's not possible!"

I really wish you would do the same, because we're all getting sick of hearing your speculation on everything.

[TheProfessor]

281 hp LQ1????
i wouldnt say impossible i saw a dyno from the guy with the box plenum and he was at about 270 wasnt he
that wanst his only mod though
but i would say itd be a bitch do drive around town not having an more low end than a 4 cyl LMAO

[SappySE107]

Well that was crank hp. GM could have done a lot of things different and make more power out of the motor. Another rumor was it had VVT but that really doesn't matter anyway to us. A better intake manifold setup, more aggresive cams, and higher compression could have done it for all we know.

[TheProfessor]

oh so what your saying is that someone was claiming 281hp at the wheels with an LQ1
yeah that is kinda out there lol

[Anonymous]

We shall see.

[SappySE107]

No, GM supposedly had 281 crank hp out of the LQ1 when they were testing it out. Very possible, for testing but it has nothing to do with the final product they released.