This is wild - Gasoline/Diesel mix

[Schmieder]

Link to article

I bet a Megasquirt PCM could be built to do this. It's basically a diesel engine but incorporates gasoline.

According to the designers, it can yield a 20% greater fuel efficiency. For others, it could mean more power or offer unique properties for boost? It does have temps 40% lower...in the article.

The concept is using the diesel fuel like a liquid spark plug allowing a more efficient gasoline burn.

So install an extra set of fuel injectors, line, pump/tank, and drop in megasquirt built to accomodate the additional injectors. Or even piggy back a controller for the additional injectors.

It seems like a project full of challenges but I can't see it being much harder then some things I see out there.

Two remarkable things happen in the gasoline-diesel mix, Reitz says. First, the engine operates at much lower combustion temperatures because of the improved control — as much as 40 percent lower than conventional engines — which leads to far less energy loss from the engine through heat transfer. Second, the customized fuel preparation controls the chemistry for optimal combustion. That translates into less unburned fuel energy lost in the exhaust, and also fewer pollutant emissions being produced by the combustion process. In addition, the system can use relatively inexpensive low-pressure fuel injection (commonly used in gasoline engines), instead of the high-pressure injection required by conventional diesel engines.

[Jonpro03]

MSextra code allows for Flexfuel, so I bet that it could with some tweaks to the code.

[Schmieder]

MSextra code allows for Flexfuel, so I bet that it could with some tweaks to the code.

I think it would be a really cool project. It definately would be something very unique on the street.

What caught my attention was the reduced temps. This could have serious implications for boosting with such a drastic reduction in temps!

Of course the car would need two fuel gauges and two fuel ports clearly marked for gas / diesel. But still, that would be pimp!

[Jonpro03]

I'll post up a link on MSextra and see if we get a response.

http://msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=40589

[robertisaar]

i bet i could whip something up for nAst1 to do something like this.... but i don't see many of us doing it.

[geoffinbc]

It sounds more like a very high compression gasoline engine with diesel. Because in order to use low pressure injectors fuel must be introduced in the intake stream. Direct injection requires huge pressure and the more precise you want to be the more pressure you need. I highly doubt the average user could replicate the precise mixture control to make it work correctly. But if you go pockets big enough you could do it.

[pocket-rocket]

I read it as diesel with gasoline injection, so it wouldn't apply to us, unless some of us have diesels that we would want to try it on. I would urge extreme caution though. I've heard of someone that put gas in a diesel on accident. It's not so bad putting diesel in a gas car, you just pump it out, fill with fresh gas and start the car and be on your merry way. The gas in the diesel engine, however, ended like those tractor pull diesels pushing 100+ PSI of boost, lol.

[Schmieder]

yeah, gas in a diesel is a bad idea.

It seems easy at first, well sort of. I bet even the wisest and safest builder would blow up a few blocks before perfecting a duel diesel/gas mix.

What caught my attention was the fuel economy and much lower cylinder temps. I doubt anyone would argue against a cooler burning fuel mix for boosting.

I would take on the challenge if I had a sponsor to pay for it all, lol. Or win the lottery.

[robertisaar]

"The answer, based on tests by the University of Wisconsin-Madison engine research group headed by Rolf Reitz, would be a diesel engine that produces significantly lower pollutant emissions than conventional engines, with an average of 20 percent greater fuel efficiency as well."

diesel engine, yet:

"In addition, the system can use relatively inexpensive low-pressure fuel injection (commonly used in gasoline engines), instead of the high-pressure injection required by conventional diesel engines. "

low pressure rail.



i don't see why this couldn't be done on a production engine, provided you have the controls to mix the gas/diesel blend right at the point before they're injected if you want to use the same injectors. you couldn't do this with a return-style fuel pump system since the gas/diesel would mix and not be possible to adjust the ratios.

or if you add a secondary set of injectors, you could run return-style since they won't get mixed until they are sprayed....

you know, i can almost guarantee i could run these kind of controls on a 16149396, i would just need to add an injector driver for the diesel injectors, have it calc the normal gasoline BPW, then compare it against whatever load they're using and use that to adjust the diesel BPW.

but, and here's the killer question, do these engines run near stoich in any of their operating conditions? if they spend a large amount of time outside of it, a wideband is an absolute necessity.

[Schmieder]

Wideband, I agree 100% just for safety issues as well.

I do think this can be done both affordable and effective. It just requires a sharp mind, patience and some good old fashion resourcefullness.

It doesn't seem so different then a NOS addition.

I know I could do it w/ some help. But I can't, my pockets are running dry these days.

But a car like that would turn a lot of heads. Especially the economy part.

[robertisaar]

from the sounds of it.... they were comparing the fuel economy increases compared to a diesel vehicle.... which already has quite a head start over gasoline.

[Schmieder]

from the sounds of it.... they were comparing the fuel economy increases compared to a diesel vehicle.... which already has quite a head start over gasoline.

Ah, yes you are correct.

I know engines are built to run at a certain temp effectively. From what I gathered, a standard gas engine is at it's best around 210°F. Having a 40% reduction in temps is very drastic. At such a point it seems the internals would need to be tweeked to run cooler. I think part of the fuel economy was the less loss of energy in heat. But again, thats gas, not diesel in this case.

I doubt it would spell the end for the intercooler. People would just toss more boost at it, lol. I don't know the details boosting a diesel, I know my wifes cousin has a cummings turbo diesel and says he loves it.

[Jonpro03]

The only way I could see this happening is if you used two complete and separate fuel injection systems. That alone is probably the biggest obstacle for the end user.

[robertisaar]

for the average car, yes.

for any truck that has ever had the option of dual gas tanks, advantage!

[Schmieder]

Ah yeah, dual gas tank trucks. For a track car, I could mount an extra fuel tank in/under the trunk. Just cut the space needed, weld up the mounts, frame around to make up for lost frame integrity and then shield it. Heck, just a 10 gallon in the trunk should do it...lol...or a bladder fill in the spare tire area.

I think it would be a fun project. I have to consider this down the road....it would be something unique, thats for sure.