Another good "modern" 60-degree V6...

[07Maxx]

Being an old gearhead from way back, I've accumulated a bunch of favorite engines down through the years. One that is somewhat similar to the GM 60-degree V6s that are stars of this forum is the Chrysler 3.3L/3.8L pushrod V6 most commonly found in the Mopar minivans. I've had four different Voyagers or Caravans with this engine and I found them to be reasonably powerful and utterly reliable. The doggone things will take a real beating and just keep on going. I think they inherited the DNA for durability from their Slant-Six ancestors.

I see the new Jeep Wrangler is using a version of this old workhouse. While I prefer the big ol' AMC inline six for Jeep duty, I can respect the "minivan" V6 as well. It's a good engine.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html

[pocket-rocket]

My sister in law has one, and so do a couple friends (despite my warnings against going with a modern Dodge product). I have to agree. My sis in law's does have a slight lifter tick, but since I have no idea if regular maintenance is even done on the poor thing it still runs like a champ. Of the two I have driven, that little 3.3 has surprised me at how well it can move that heavy turd of a body around.

[trewyn15]

very good engine i love mopar, moms got the 3.8l in the minivan and that thing runs to perfection.

[jman093]

Areed.The good ol 3.8 is by far the most reliable of Chrysler's V6 engines (Chrysler has a lot). It will soon be gone now that the new Pentastar engines are replacing all other V6's.

[60dgrzbelow0]

Way back when ... I think Chrysler designed their powerful "392 Fire-Power" for the Chrysler 300. That engine eventually morphed into the famous "426 Hemi" used in the Plymouth Road Runner,etc. Later on, they seemed to have taken the same design of 392 ...chopped it in half and then added 2 more cylinders and made their very odd but very strong "Slant Six" Hemi. So here is the Question: When they designed the 3.8L... did they continue with the hemispherical, center head spark plug design as well?

A Brief Hemi Story...

Back in 1967... me and a buddy installed a 392 FP inside an old mini-bread truck. After cutting this and moving that to shoe horn the big engine in there and maybe some chopping/shortening the drive shaft, we installed a 4.56 rear end in the thing...a Pontiac IIRC. When we finally buttoned up the engine and idled it out for a test drive, my friend Kurt grinned from ear to ear as he revved that rumbling motor for a bit... then he dropped the clutch...and shortly thereafter... we pulled a roaring wheel stand in that dinky truck that lasted damn near the length of a whole city block with the both of us screaming like scared girl scouts! After...when I realized I wasn't going to die... I never laughed so loud in my life. There is nothing as cool as the power that comes from a Hemi Motor!

[pocket-rocket]

There is nothing as cool as the power that comes from a Hemi Motor!

What about top fuel dragsters?

Warning, wall of text incoming... Luckily we have the code box to make life easier

* One dragster's 500-inch Hemi makes more horsepower then the first 8 rows at Daytona.

* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1 1/2 gallons of nitro per second, the same rate of fuel consumption as a fully loaded 
747 but with 4 times the energy volume.

* The supercharger takes more power to drive than a stock hemi makes.

* Even with nearly 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into nearly-solid form before ignition. 
Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock.

* Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.

* The air/fuel mixture is ignited by two 14 mm spark plugs per cylinder.

*Normal ignition timing is 58-65 degrees BTDC. (This is dramatically greater spark advance than in a petrol engine as "nitro" and alcohol burn far slower.) 
Directly after launch the timing is typically decreased by about 25 degrees for a short time as this gives the tires time to reach their correct shape.

* The ignition system limits the engine speed to 8400 rpm. The ignition system provides initial 50,000 volts and 1.2 amperes. The long duration spark 
(up to 26 degrees) provides energy of 950 millijoules. The plugs are placed in such a way that they are cooled by the incoming charge. 

* The ignition system is not allowed to respond to real time information (no computer-based spark lead adjustments), so instead a timer-based 
retard system is used.

* At stoichiometric (exact) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture (for nitro), the flame front of nitromethane measures 7050 degrees F.

* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water 
vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Exhaust temperature is about 500°F (260°C) at idle and 1796°F (980°C) by the end of a run. A night run provides visual excitement with slow-burning 
nitromethane flames many feet above this screaming spectacle of acceleration.

* The engine is warmed up for about 80 seconds. After the warm up the valve covers are taken off, oil is changed and the car is refueled. The run including 
tire warming is about 100 seconds which results in a "lap" of about three minutes. After each lap, the entire engine is disassembled and examined, and 
worn or damaged components are replaced.

* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression-plus the glow of exhaust valves at 
1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting off its fuel flow.

* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in those cylinders and then explodes with a force that can blow cylinder heads off 
the block in pieces or blow the block in half.

* Dragsters twist the crank (torsionally) so far (20 degrees in the big end of the track) that sometimes cam lobes are ground offset from front to rear to 
re-phase the valve timing somewhere closer to synchronization with the pistons.

* To exceed 300mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching 200 mph well before 1/2 track, launch 
acceleration is closer to 8G's.

* If all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs $1000.00 per second.

* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have read this sentence.

* The multiple clutches used progressively engage on launch and only last about 4 runs, or 1 mile.

* If you took a Lingenfelter twin turbo Corvette and gave it a 200 mph head start, if the dragster launched as the 'Vette was crossing the starting 
line at 200 mph by the time the 'Vette hit half track (1/8 mile) the dragster would have already passed it.

* A top fuel dragster accelerates from a standstill to 100 mph (160 km/h) in as little as 0.7 seconds (less than one fifth the time required by a 
production Porsche 911 Turbo to reach 60 mph) and can exceed 280 mph (450 km/h) in just 660 feet (0.2 km).

* Before their run, racers often perform a burnout in order to clean and heat tires. Additionally, the burnout applies a layer of fresh rubber to the 
track surface, which greatly improves traction during launch. A burnout may cover up to one quarter of the track's distance.

* At maximum throttle and RPM, the exhaust gases escaping from a dragster's open headers produce about 800-1000 pounds (3.6 kilonewtons) of 
downforce. The massive foil over and behind the rear wheels produces much more, peaking at around 12,000 lbf (53 kN) when the car reaches a 
speed of about 324 mph (521 km/h).

* The engine of a Top Fuel dragster generates 120 dB[2] of sound at full throttle, enough to cause physical pain in some individuals. A sound that 
intense is not just heard, but also felt as pounding vibrations all over one's body, leading many to compare the experience of watching a Top Fuel 
dragster make a pass to 'feeling as though the entire drag strip is being bombed'. Prior to a run, race announcers usually advise spectators to cover 
or plug their ears. Ear plugs and even earmuffs are often handed out to fans at the entrance of a Top Fuel event.

* While nitromethane has a much lower energy density (11.2 MJ/kg) than either gasoline (44 MJ/kg) or methanol (22.7 MJ/kg), an engine burning 
nitromethane can produce up to 2.3 times more power than an engine burning gasoline. This is made possible by the fact that, in addition to fuel, an 
engine must burn air in order to generate force: 14.7 kg of air is required to burn one kilogram of gasoline, compared to only 1.7 kg of air for one 
kilogram of nitromethane. This means that an engine can burn 8.7 times more nitromethane than gasoline.

*Nitromethane also has a high temperature of vaporization, meaning that it will absorb substantial engine heat as it vaporizes, providing an invaluable 
cooling mechanism. The laminar flame speed and combustion temperature are higher than gasoline at 0.5 m/s and 2400 °C respectively.

* NHRA competition rules limit the displacement to 500 cubic inch (8194 cc). A 4.1875 in. (106.4 mm) bore with a 4.5 in. (114.3 mm) stroke are customary 
dimensions. Larger bores have been shown to weaken the cylinder block. Compression ratio is about 6.5:1, as is common on engines with overdriven 
superchargers (that is, the supercharger is driven faster than the crankshaft).

* The block is machined from a piece of forged aluminium. It has press-fitted, ductile iron liners. There are no water passages in the block, which adds 
considerable strength and stiffness. The engine is cooled by the incoming air/fuel mixture.

* The cylinder heads are machined from aluminum billets. As such, they, too, lack water jackets and rely entirely on the incoming air/fuel mixture for their 
cooling. The original Chrysler design of two large valves per cylinder is used. The intake valve is made from solid titanium and the exhaust from solid 
Nimonic 80A or similar. Seats are of ductile iron. Beryllium-copper has been tried but its use is limited due to cost. Valve sizes are around 2.45 in. (62.2 mm) 
for the intake and 1.925 in. (48.9 mm) for the exhaust.

* The camshaft is billet steel, made from 8620 carbon steel or similar. It runs in five oil pressure lubricated bearing shells and is driven by gears in the front 
of the engine. Mechanical roller lifters ride atop the cam lobes and drive the steel push rods up into the steel rockers that actuate the valves. The rockers are 
of roller type on the intake side, but high exhaust pressure limits their use to the intake side only. The steel roller rotates on a steel roller bearing and the steel 
rocker arms rotate on a pair of titanium shafts within bronze bushings. Intake rockers are billet while the exhausts are investment cast. The dual valve springs 
are of coaxial type and made out of titanium. Valve retainers are also made of titanium, as are the rocker covers.

* Billet steel crankshafts are used; they all have a cross plane a.k.a. 90 degree configuration and run in five conventional bearing shells. 180 degree crankshafts 
have been tried and they can offer increased power, even though the exhaust is of open type. A 180 degree crankshaft is also about 10 kg lighter than 90 
degree crankshaft, but they create a lot of vibration. Such is the strength of a top fuel crankshaft that in one incident, the entire engine block was split open and 
blown off the car during an engine failure, and the crank, with all eight connecting rods and pistons, was left still bolted to the clutch.

* Pistons are made of forged aluminium. They have three rings and aluminium buttons retain the 1.156 x 3.300 in. steel pin. The piston is anodized and Teflon 
coated to prevent galling during high temperature operation. The top ring is an L-shaped Dykes ring that provides a good seal during combustion but a second 
ring must be used to prevent oil from entering the combustion chamber during intake strokes as the Dykes-style ring offers less than optimal combustion gas 
sealing. The third ring is an oil scraper ring whose function is helped by the second ring. The connecting rods are of forged aluminium and do provide some shock 
damping, which is why aluminum is used in place of titanium, because titanium connecting rods transmit too much of the combustion impulse to the big-end rod 
bearings, endangering the bearings and thus the crankshaft and block.

* The supercharger is a 14-71 type Roots blower. It has twisted lobes and is driven by a toothed belt. The supercharger is slightly offset to the rear to provide 
an even distribution of air. Absolute manifold pressure is usually 3.8-4.5 bar (56-66 PSI), but up to 5.0 bar (74 PSI) is possible. The manifold is fitted with a 
200 psi burst plate. Air is fed to the compressor from throttle butterflies with a maximum area of 65 sq. in. At maximum pressure, it takes approximately 
900 horsepower (670 kW) to drive the supercharger.

* The superchargers are in fact derivatives of General Motors scavenging-air blowers for their two-cycle diesel engines, which were adapted for automotive 
use in the early days of the sport. The model name of these superchargers delineates their size – the once commonly used 6-71 and 4-71 blowers were 
designed for General Motors diesels having six cylinders of 71 cubic inches each, and four cylinders of 71 cubic inches each, respectively. Thus, the currently 
used 14-71 design can be seen to be a huge increase in power delivery over the early designs.

* The oil system has a wet sump which contains 16 quarts of SAE 70 mineral or synthetic racing oil. The pan is made of titanium or aluminium. Titanium 
can be used to prevent oil spills in the event of a blown rod. Oil pressure is somewhere around 160–170 lbf/in² during the run, 200 lbf/in² at start up, but 
actual figures differ between teams.

* Fuel is injected by a constant flow injection system. There is an engine driven mechanical fuel pump and about 42 fuel nozzles. The pump can flow 
100 gallons per minute at 8000 rpm and 500 PSI fuel pressure. In general 10 injectors are placed in the injector hat above the supercharger, 16 in the intake 
manifold and two per cylinder in the cylinder head. Usually a race is started with a leaner mixture, then as the clutch begins to tighten as the engine speed 
builds, the air/fuel mixture is enriched. As engine speed builds pump pressure the mixture is made leaner to maintain a predetermined ratio that is based on 
many factors, one of which is primary one of race track surface friction. The stoichiometry of both methanol and nitromethane is considerably greater than 
that of racing gasoline, as they have oxygen atoms attached to their carbon chains and gasoline does not. This means that a "fueler" engine will provide power 
over a very broad range from very lean to very rich mixtures. Thus, to attain maximum performance, before each race, by varying the level of fuel supplied to 
the engine, the mechanical crew may select power outputs barely below the limits of tire traction. Power outputs which create tire slippage will "smoke the tires" 
and the race is often lost.

* 
Did you know …

… that the nitromethane-powered engines of NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars produce approximately 7,000 horsepower, about 37 times that of the average 
street car?

… that one cylinder of the eight cylinders of a Top Fuel dragster or a Funny Car produces 750 horsepower, equaling the entire horsepower output of a 
NASCAR engine?

… that the gasoline-powered engines of NHRA Pro Stock cars produce about 1,200 horsepower, about eight times that of the average street car?

… that an NHRA Top Fuel dragster accelerates from 0 to 100 mph in less than .8-second, almost 11 seconds quicker than it takes a production Porsche 911 Turbo 
to reach the same speed?

… that an NHRA Top Fuel dragster leaves the starting line with a force nearly five times that of gravity, the same force of the space shuttle when it leaves the 
launching pad at Cape Canaveral?

… that an NHRA Funny Car is slowed by a reverse force more than seven times that of gravity when both parachutes deploy simultaneously?

… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars consume between four and five gallons of fuel during a quarter-mile run, which is equivalent to between 
16 and 20 gallons per mile?

… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars use between 10 and 12 gallons of fuel for a complete pass, including the burnout, backup to the starting 
line, and quarter-mile run?

… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars travel the length of more than four football fields in less than five seconds?

… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters can exceed 280 mph in just 660 feet?

… that from a standing start, NHRA Top Fuel dragsters accelerate faster than a jumbo jet, a fighter jet, and a Formula One race car?

… that a fuel pump for an NHRA Top Fuel dragster and Funny Car delivers 65 gallons of fuel [B]per minute[/B], equivalent to eight bathroom showers running 
at the same time?

… that the fuel-line pressure for NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars is between 400 and 500 pounds, about 20 times greater than the pressure on 
passenger-car fuel pumps?

… that depending on size and angle, the large rear wing on an NHRA Top Fuel dragster develops between 4,000 and 8,000 pounds of downforce?

… that the 17-inch rear tires used on NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars wear out after four to six runs, or about two miles? Some brands of 
passenger-car tires are guaranteed for 80,000 miles.

… that it takes just 15/100ths of a second for all 7,000 horsepower of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels?

… that it's desirable for an NHRA Top Fuel dragster to race with its front wheels inches off the ground for about the first 200 feet of the run? This ensures 
proper weight transfer to the rear wheels, a crucial part of a good launch and quick run.

… that the nitromethane used to power the engines of NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars costs about $30 per gallon?

Sources: NHRA Communications and Technical Departments, NHRA race teams, motorsports equipment manufacturers and Wikipedia.

Yeah... me likey top fuel dragsters

[bob442]

I couldnt read threw all of that lol. to much to take in.

[pocket-rocket]

It is a bit much. At least I put it in a code box so it wasn't a complete wall of text

[07Maxx]

The Mopar 3.3L/3.8L V6s were fairly pedestrian in design; no hemi combusion chambers or anything exotic like that.... From what I've heard and seen, they were supposed to be torque-makers and understressed in their power output for longer life. I've developed a lot of respect for them over the years.

Too bad they were always mated to the dreaded A604/41TE slushbox in car and minivan duty. Not only did it seem to sap way too much power, it also tended to be quite fragile & willing to grenade itself at the worst possible moment. The later versions were far better than the first ones, but I never did get to the point where I fully trusted it. And this from the company who brought us the fabulous Torqueflite family of trannies!

[jman093]

The Mopar 3.3L/3.8L V6s were fairly pedestrian in design; no hemi combusion chambers or anything exotic like that.... From what I've heard and seen, they were supposed to be torque-makers and understressed in their power output for longer life. I've developed a lot of respect for them over the years.

Too bad they were always mated to the dreaded A604/41TE slushbox in car and minivan duty. Not only did it seem to sap way too much power, it also tended to be quite fragile & willing to grenade itself at the worst possible moment. The later versions were far better than the first ones, but I never did get to the point where I fully trusted it. And this from the company who brought us the fabulous Torqueflite family of trannies!

They've been available with 62TE's since 2008.

[07Maxx]

They've been available with 62TE's since 2008.

Yeah, that's true. And it's a blessing.

Actually the 41TE in our last Caravan (2005 SWB model with 3.3L/41TE) behaved quite well, with smooth shifts and no hunting for gears like earlier versions I experienced. That Caravan had good pep and was also able to give 26-28 MPG on the highway, as long as I didn't push it past 75 MPH.