opinion poll on taxes

[RednBlack]

kanchou. Do you vote?

I try to. Why?

So you don't vote, answer was so vague.........You sound like you are running for office.

[kanchou]

well, i try to, work permitting. I've missed some office elections before.

I have to take special time at my current job to get to local elections because I work an hour away from where i live. . therefore, its not like I can take a lunch hour to swing back to my district, vote, then swing back to the office. . ..

[bvr775]

Wow. . .so tell me, how many months out of the year do you work for the government?

6on 3off If you want to get technical. they take a big chunck of my check. So inorder offset that I have to have a good job.

How's petroleum inspector for a job. I work for OPEC basicaly inspecting crude and outher petrolium cargos that come into this country.

How would you feel If i told there were different kinds of crude and the crude used to make gas is just a little over 21bux a bbl. The nice crude with all the light ends goes into reserve or is used for goverment applications.

Who,s getting rich off the middel and lower class?

kanchou,
there is something that has been bugging me. Earlyer in this thread you stated "my age isn't revelent" , but i belive it is. If your not old enough to vote or just barly old enough to vote. I don't belive you would have enough "life exsperince" to debate this issue. If your closer to 55 you would fall into a whole diffent generation and probally would lack the computer skills so maney of us Xer and younger generations are born with and probaly wouldn't even be on this this forum. But from your comments I can only assume you your in college or fresh out and still spout the same veiws as your favorite professor. I'm young enough to see, but old enough to know.
Basicaly: do you pay your own way? do you live at home with your parents? These are relivent questions as is your age.

You started this by asking a quetion there is no answer to right now.
Now i'm putting you on the spot. What qualifies you to ask that question?

[kanchou]

6on 3off If you want to get technical. they take a big chunck of my check. So inorder offset that I have to have a good job.

If only it worked liked that. . .the more you make the more they tax and withold from you...

How's petroleum inspector for a job. I work for OPEC basicaly inspecting crude and outher petrolium cargos that come into this country.

How would you feel If i told there were different kinds of crude and the crude used to make gas is just a little over 21bux a bbl. The nice crude with all the light ends goes into reserve or is used for goverment applications.

I'd say we better keep building the federal reserves as long as China and others are doing the same.

kanchou,
there is something that has been bugging me. Earlyer in this thread you stated "my age isn't revelent" , but i belive it is. If your not old enough to vote or just barly old enough to vote. I don't belive you would have enough "life exsperince" to debate this issue.

Hmm. . .Okay. . . So imagine theres some military budget planning underway with the taxpayer's money. Who should be in charge of that money? A civil elected official with no military experience? Or an official who's been in the military?
Your first answer, based on your logic in the quote box, would probably be the guy with the military experience...does that mean the guy with no military experience has no grounds to debate any issue reguarding the military?
Do you realise thats military facism?
So. . .if I'm not old enough to vote, in your mind, that invalidates everything I have to say, therefore I have no right to speak on any matters. . .way to defend that 1st ammendment. ;p

If your closer to 55 you would fall into a whole diffent generation and probally would lack the computer skills so maney of us Xer and younger generations are born with and probaly wouldn't even be on this this forum.

Not that it would be relevant if I was 55 or older either. Does it mean 'old people' to you can't learn or use new technologies? If you think this, then you've probably got the wrong perspective to be making your views. All pc computers and a bulk of other specialty computers are all designs about 30 years old. Haven't changed much over those last 3 decades, either. That pentium 4 is not that much different from its 8086 great grandpa, and ideally identical to an 80386.
What makes you think anything is new to the 'old people?' speaking of which, You know how old the CEO of Intel is? almost 70. you know what his qualifications are?
Do you still feel that just because you're 'old' you fall into a mystical group that is backwards from the rest of the world?

But from your comments I can only assume you your in college or fresh out and still spout the same veiws as your favorite professor. I'm young enough to see, but old enough to know.

Not that that is relevant either. You see, what you're doing now is called using an Ad Hominem circumnavigation to try to discredit the individual rather than address the issue. Your questions are carefully two-sided to obstruct actual thought on the issue, and designed to criticise the person raising the issue. "You can't be old enough and can't be young enough to know what you're talking about" summarizes what you've just said here.

Basicaly: do you pay your own way? do you live at home with your parents? These are relivent questions as is your age.

It doesn't really matter and isnt relevant to the topic, or to your position that my 'life experience' is somehow invalid next to someone elses 'life experience.'
How would it change the points I raised if I was a single father in an apartment? How would it change the points I raised if I was an 18 year old dropout who lived with his aunt in the burbs? How would it change if I was a 40 year old office lady who lived with & supported her mother? A married man on a farm? A business executive? An Ex-convicted felon of 20 years? A home schooled 6-year old who faints under stress?
Before the turn of the century, there was a theoretical mathematician and scientist who often had alot to say on religion and God. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind," he once said. He was no man of the cloth or religious scholar, does that mean he had less of a right to comment on such things? Because his 'life experiences' didn't match up to someone's standard and therefore invalidates anything he has to say on the topic?

Not that it matters, but do you remember who said that?

You started this by asking a quetion there is no answer to right now.
Now I'm putting you on the spot. What qualifies you to ask that question?

I'm an American citizen with Inalienable rights. Thats what qualifies me. God Bless America. I'll defend the right to not need to be 'qualified' to be able to speak as long as I can. The moment you need special qualifications to excercise your free speech is the moment the first ammendment is gone and a censorship government is in control.
And part of my point was; as long as it isn't questioned, there will never be an answer.

[bszopi]

Sicne people seem to be scared to divuldge information about themselves in this thread...

I'm a 29 yr old college student (graduate in December, yea!) who just recently married a single mom (her/our daughter will be 2 in Aug). I graduated high school with a ~3.2x GPA and joined the Navy. I spent 6 years in the Navy as an Electronics Technician and Nuclear reactor Operator on a fast attack submarine. The main reason I got out was because of all the political BS tied up in the nuclear military. Since then, I have gone back to college, majoring in Construction Science and Management, and have worked for the past 5 years as the Operations Supervisor of a local shopping mall. The whole time has been full time work (40+ hrs a week) and full time school (15+ hrs a semester). I have also been involved for the past 4 years in getting this website where it is now. Oh yeah, and I have NEVER voted.

So where does this put me in the whole scheme of things? Who the fuck cares... So now that's someone has laid out their situation, will this allow others to do the same? Or are we all just gonna keep hiding behind our political statements?

[kanchou]

my point was, as i tried to articulate, that none of your 'situation' is relevant to weather or not you're qualified to make statements on how the tax structure works, or anything else for that matter.

When you can explain to me what about your background somehow makes you less, or more valid than the next guy(that it somehow makes you invalid otherwise), then I may find it relevant to share my background. Until then, it has nothing to do with the points I raised or anyone else.

Its still not addressing the issues.

So where does this put me in the whole scheme of things? Who the fuck cares...

----
BTW, thank you for your service. Support troops.

[RednBlack]

Well said bszopi! I am 47 years old! I have 4 children, all grown and I sport 6 grandchildren! I never graduated High School, got my GED in the Navy. Spent 5 years there as an Occupational Specialist Instructor.. I have this wierd condition called 100% mechanical apptitude. (Engineman, Boiler Tech and Machinist Mate) Learned most of what I know from my Father and hands on experience. I built this computer. I listen to hard, kick ass, rock and roll! I have no desire to put spinner hubcaps on anything, except the top of my trash. And...I can weld a Pop can together. and.....I like beer! We were so poor when I was young, Mom had to cut holes in our pockets, so we could have something to play with!! I learned to hunt when I was 6. And you ate what you killed. You can spend your time arguing politics, or you can vote and try to do your best to change what you feel is wrong. I will always pay my share of taxes. Are they too high? HELL YES! But as long as our troops in Iraq have the best possible equipment in the world to protect our American way of life, and their own...It makes it a little easier to swallow. And I like Beer! (Oh, I said that already) And although it is illegal, I will shoot off fireworks on the 4th! U.S.A.!!!!!!! (and weather is spelled Whether!)

[kanchou]

(and weather is spelled Whether!)

Whups, so noted. I think BVR could use some of your proofreading skillz too. :P

And thank you for your service, too. Don't burn yourself Like i did shooting off firecrackers.

[bvr775]

tryed of doing the cut and paste quote thing.


it's an internet forum not english 101. It all comes down to nitpicking when you put someone on the spot.
the point is the majority of the 55 and over club that know computers don't activly participate in forum, chat, BB or outher internet gatherings, but as a whole the majoraty of the 55+ people either don't know are chose not to know about the internet. That's not saying they don't know anything about computers. Sorry to offend anyone. I just what him to ansewer a quetion.


To the point though of this whole thing though. You keep saying you don't belive human nature has anything to do with it, but yet you have displayed thoughout your post Instictive behaveours assosiated with human nature. You compete to be right, to be better and you will not answer anyons elses quetions(mabey you belive it to be a weakness) WHY?


How old? Do you pay your own way? These are relvent and outhers gave there credintals. Why won't you?

[kanchou]

I never said human nature had nothing to do with it. I said that its up to the individual how they chose to behave. You're the one who actually stated things to be fatally human nature, immutable, and automatic.

I said:

No he wouldn't have to convince anyone of anything. He has a rock nobody else has a rock. Human nature will take over from there

See I believe this is our fundamental difference. You seem believe that no-one is to blame for that. People can't help themselves. Its human nature. Well, I still say its the individual that decides whats important to them, and 'human nature' doesn't absolve them from the responsibility of taking care of their own affairs.

I don't compete to be 'right' or 'better;' only to offer an alternate point of view which may not be considered. I think that may be where you're misunderstanding me.

Until you can show me that what you're asking has any relevance to the points i raised, in the sense that YOU said I either lack the life experience or have the wrong life experience to even talk about such things; If you cant tell me what my age and how i make my living have ANYTHING to do with my ability to comment on such things, it remains completely and utterly irellevant.

Your experiences in your life don't mystically invalidate me from formulating an opinion and sharing my ideas on a subject. They're irellevant.

[bvr775]

Your still avoiding the the question and your competeing.

I want to know what right you have to ask this quetion.
you said you had an inalianble right to ask, but then you basicaly said that people in this country don't have the right to work for gainfull employment if they don''t earn it by going to college. So you don't belive in inalinable rights.
inalianable rights are shelter, food and clothing. your have to work for them. so in affect the bill of right says that every american has the right to gainfull employment.

I wouldn't have goin this far with this, but you asked us what our "opinion" was. Then you basicaly said everyone who has a diffrent veiw than yours' is wrong.
read through your posts.

an opinion can't be wrong. It's just that "an opinion" and every has one. Respect it.

done with this. I'm a gearhead not a politicain

[kanchou]

Your still avoiding the the question and your competeing.

;p I'm not avoiding the question. I told you point blank I won't answer it.

I want to know what right you have to ask this quetion.
you said you had an inalianble right to ask,

Yes I did.

...but then you basicaly said that people in this country don't have the right to work for gainfull employment if they don''t earn it by going to college.

No, I didn't. Please show me where I did.

inalianable rights are shelter, food and clothing. your have to work for them. so in affect the bill of right says that every american has the right to gainfull employment.

You have no such rights to tangible things. Thats more socialism.

And the Bill of Rights explains what rights shall not be infringed upon by a government. I don't believe there is anything in there that say every American has a right to food, shelter, or clothing(all of which are tangible assets.)

the idea of Inalienable Rights as an expression pre-dates the bill of rights. It comes from the declaration of independance(speaking of u.s. history), and these include the right to Life and living, Liberty and independant thought, and the pursuit of happiness. The Bill of Rights was actually developed to prevent the Government from intruding on those things. It doesn't guarantee anyone a free hot meal.

I wouldn't have goin this far with this, but you asked us what our "opinion" was. Then you basicaly said everyone who has a diffrent veiw than yours' is wrong.

I said no such thing. What I DID say was many of the answers to the poll I started in the first place, they seemed to be conflicting with other answers and opinions the same people held.

What I wanted to do was to offer an alternate point of view on just the first question in the poll. It kinda expanded outward from there. . . .

Actually, the people on this board are among the most civil I've ever chatted with on something like this. I'm glad alot of the people here have no problem thinking through their points without becoming flaming, or blindly obtuse, espescially the guys(girls?) that may disagree with eachother.

you guys are cool.

[RednBlack]

It is a nice place isn't it? Furniture needs updated though. I don't argue politics. It makes no sense at all. It is like arguing about the whether. I stand as...Vote if you want change. If you don't ...then even your opinion is wasted on dead ears. I vote...every election, local, state and national. My vote is my opinion. Voting is my inalienable right! After that...you work...To put a roof over your head, to put food on your table, to take care of your own as best you can. Once you have your golfballs taken care of...Then, and only then,...You can have a beer!

[kanchou]

furniture? Dude, i love the whole bluprint background thing. Reminds me of drafting class in highschool. . . .

[RednBlack]

No offence, I was a dude before you were a thought. Your perspective is well noted.