opinion poll on taxes

[kanchou]

I agree, but there is no fair solution

I like the ideas promoted by consumption taxes. Check out this site: http://www.fairtax.org

Only the upper class and rich have any power in this country. And they ain't conserned with all us peaons that they can crush with their weekend money clip.

It couldn't be that they have power because they actually work for it, could it? That they went to college and studied things and invested thier time into doing things that made them supposedly 'powerful?'

I pesonaly thinck we should take up arms aginst the rich and demand fair treatment(this dosen't mean picking up wepons and shoting them, beside you shoot one their will just be more behinde them)

That doesnt make any sense to me. I though the arguement was theres too many poor people and too few rich people?

Meaning we should stick together as a country and stop beliveing all the B/S we see on TV and quit buying their products. We make them rich, we give them power, and we can stop them, but nobody wants to live without that 52" plasma TV, brand new SUV(or whatever is popular) and the $200,000 house. We are all guilty of "Keeping Up Appearances" That what makes the rich rich and the poor poor.
Americans(not just Texans) need to quit blamming everyone else and look in the mirror every once in a while.

I totally and completely agree with this very wise statement.

[kanchou]

Although not perfect, our system could be ALOT worse. Look at the amount of waste and coruption in our current system (both parties), imagine how bad it would be if government controlled everything. Any increase in tax money that is collected - redistributed just gives politicians more power. So the power moves from the wealthy to the politicians (who didnt earn it) so they can in effect "Buy votes".

They don't have to imagine. They just have to study mexico's economy and politics before Mr Fox was elected presidente.

phew, look away for a few days and look at all the fun posts.

[bvr775]

kanchou that's a really s^&**y veiw on outher peoples rights.Not everyone has the means to educate themselfs. Would you give a few dollars to a stranger so they could buy books for school? No. you give money to a charitable organization and hope that they give the money to someone in need. Unfortunatly these organizations or run by humans. It's human nature to discriminate. I'm guessing you are either faily young or close to retirement age. Everyone In this county and in any outher has the right to gainful employment based on their knowlegde of a situation(so you may only know how to scrub toilets, But your still entitled to a job).


ok let's look at this way. If every thing was equal. If everyone had the same things and the same houses and the same cars the world would be fair, Right.
well it's human nature to want to compete so someone would find a rock that nobody else has, brag about it, and that would make them rich and powerfull because everyone would want it

the poor make themselfs poor by wanting what the rich have. Here in this country it's matiriale posesions (ie cars,baots,houses,tvs....ect....) In outher countrys it may be family or the size of your toilet, But here in America even the poor can compete with the rich. It's called credit and rich people don't need it they invented it so the poor could be inslaved to them. You make someone have to work for nothing to pay you for something that you convinced them they couldn't live without and you own them. This goes back to indentered servants.

This is the way society works. Society could not at this time in our evolution survive any outher way. Once people quit fooling themselfs into thincking that the rich owe them something and start standing own their own, Then changes can be made without upseting the balance.

[kanchou]

kanchou that's a really s^&**y veiw on outher peoples rights.Not everyone has the means to educate themselfs.

I'm sorry, everyone hasmeans to educate themselves unless they have become stupid(incapable of learning.) However, people have different circumstances which may take priority, but then they're choosing not to educate themselves and choosing to do something else.
Some of us drive a 2004 car, or have a 60" tv, and make payments rather than get a cheap car and goto school with that money. Some of us are single parents who take care of a kid rather than goto school with their money. Thank God I live in America where I can choose whats important to me. But its a double edge sword for many people who don't understand how their choices affect their life.
So ... why should I lose my rights because someone else can't make good life choices for themselves?

Would you give a few dollars to a stranger so they could buy books for school? No. you give money to a charitable organization and hope that they give the money to someone in need. Unfortunatly these organizations or run by humans. It's human nature to discriminate.

Actually, no, I wouldn't give it to an organisation and just 'hope' they do good. I research charities thoroughly before they seen ANYTHING from me. Most charities that are honest are extremely open about how their practices operate, so I call them, research them. I don't just give and hope someone knows what they're doing.
And you're right, I wouldn't give a few dollars to a stranger. I usually get pan handlers when I'm eating lunch. They hit me up with the same line "can i get some spare change to buy a sandwich?" I always offer them my other sandwich and fries and stuff. . . and they always turn me down. . .guess they wanted the change for later. . .

I'm guessing you are either faily young or close to retirement age. Everyone In this county and in any outher has the right to gainful employment based on their knowlegde of a situation(so you may only know how to scrub toilets, But your still entitled to a job).

Heh. My age is irellevant, and NO ONE has a right to a job. The Job belongs to the company who is hiring for the job. They hire people because they need someone of a certain degree of skill or temperment to perform a task for them. They decide what to pay for that position. I don't know where people get the idea that anyone owes them a job. . .

ok let's look at this way. If every thing was equal. If everyone had the same things and the same houses and the same cars the world would be fair, Right.

And very dull, but yes.

well it's human nature to want to compete so someone would find a rock that nobody else has, brag about it, and that would make them rich and powerfull because everyone would want it

If he was good enough to convince people the rock had value. . .well then I guess he would get powerful. . . ;p

the poor make themselfs poor by wanting what the rich have. Here in this country it's matiriale posesions (ie cars,baots,houses,tvs....ect....) In outher countrys it may be family or the size of your toilet, But here in America even the poor can compete with the rich. It's called credit and rich people don't need it they invented it so the poor could be inslaved to them.You make someone have to work for nothing to pay you for something that you convinced them they couldn't live without and you own them. This goes back to indentered servants.

Okay. . .then explain to me, other than taxes, what MAKES someone have to work for something? Is VISA taking a gun to your head and telling you to run up 10,000 on a high interest credit card? Is the CEO of Mercedes forcing you to work to pay for an E series?
what happened to responsiblity of the individual? The individual is responsible for making life choices that let them think that material possesions will make them happy.

This is the way society works. Society could not at this time in our evolution survive any outher way. Once people quit fooling themselfs into thincking that the rich owe them something and start standing own their own, Then changes can be made without upseting the balance.

I don't agree with your view on the means. But I do agree with your ends you just described. It is the responisbility of the individual to conduct themselves accordingly. And I don't think someone else should be forced to pay their hard earn assets to cover up for someone elses poor life choices.

[bszopi]

Let's see... I own a 60" TV, drive a 94 and a 98 vehicle, just married a single parent 3 months ago (and plan on adopting in the near future), have worked since the age of 16 (so... 13 yrs now) and I'm letting the government pay my education. Oh wait, but I also served in the military for 6 years, so I kinda earned it. As far as everyone can get a job, I agree with that. Its those people that don't want to take the not so desirable job that will remain jobless. I can guarantee that there is always a fast food resturant, Wal-Mart or supermarket hiring for some shift. But there are plenty of people that think they are too good for those types of jobs.

As far as the bums and such, at the fast food resturant I worked at in high school, there was always a guy with a sign around the holidays holding a sign saying "will work for food". Every year, my boss would go up to them and offer them a job working at the resturant, and how many of them do you think took him up on the offer? Not a single one....

[Rhedalert]

I just wanted to point out- In before the lock!

[kanchou]

like I said bzopi Civil servants like Rescue and Security should be the ones who get first crack at tax revenue. you bring up some good points on people not wanting to fill jobs available, too.

I still don't see any reason to lock this thread unless people just don't like this sort of thing. I mean, nobody is flaming or swearing or being nasty. Its just open debate.

but hey, like I said, not my board, not my rules. :P

[bvr775]

If he was good enough to convince people the rock had value. . .well then I guess he would get powerful. . . ;p

No he wouldn't have to convince anyone of anything. He has a rock nobody else has a rock. Human nature will take over from there

Okay. . .then explain to me, other than taxes, what MAKES someone have to work for something? Is VISA taking a gun to your head and telling you to run up 10,000 on a high interest credit card? Is the CEO of Mercedes forcing you to work to pay for an E series?

this was an exgerated example, but true. It's like this: Why do you have the internet? It's not needed. Anything you find on the internet you can find in a library for free. You have to work to pay for it. Why do you have electricty? it's not needed. people have been know to live with out electricy even in todays society. you have to work to pay for that. How many cridit cards do yu have? Do you need them? Do you use them? I've never meet any that "NEEDED" credit, but society convinces you that you would be looked down on not to have these things.
You have to work to have them right. Truth is you don't "NEED" anything, but the abilty to forage for food. Primitive, but true.

[kanchou]

No he wouldn't have to convince anyone of anything. He has a rock nobody else has a rock. Human nature will take over from there

See I believe this is our fundamental difference. You seem believe that no-one is to blame for that. People can't help themselves. Its human nature. Well, I still say its the individual that decides whats important to them, and 'human nature' doesn't absolve them from the responsibility of taking care of their own affairs.

Do you need them? Do you use them? I've never meet any that "NEEDED" credit, but society convinces you that you would be looked down on not to have these things.
You have to work to have them right. Truth is you don't "NEED" anything, but the abilty to forage for food. Primitive, but true

People convince themselves what they need. The individual is responsible for that, not some evil nebulous 'society.' People make choices. Not everyone understands the effects of their own choices.

[bvr775]

See I believe this is our fundamental difference. You seem believe that no-one is to blame for that. People can't help themselves. Its human nature. Well, I still say its the individual that decides whats important to them, and 'human nature' doesn't absolve them from the responsibility of taking care of their own affairs.

would it have made a differnce if used a dimond as an example?
People place value on that which they don't posses or is hard to obtain. If there is only one rock and only one person posses it, then that give the rock value.
You can't eat the rock and would have no pratical value, but it would rare and that would give it value. People would wish to posses the rock and that would give the owner power.

Why do you have the internet? It's not needed. Anything you find on the internet you can find in a library for free. You have to work to pay for it. Why do you have electricty? it's not needed. people have been know to live with out electricy even in todays society. you have to work to pay for that. How many cridit cards do yu have? Do you need them? Do you use them? I've never meet any that "NEEDED" credit, but society convinces you that you would be looked down on not to have these things.

but you didn't answer the quetion. Do "you" have them? why do "you" have them?



in response to anouther responce in one of the posts i read
If you don't thinck the Bush jr ,his family and VP are involed up to their ears in the petrolem industry you need to do some research.

and yes we do have a state income tax. Altough it's not called that and we don't get anything back from it. WE are taxed based on county, and city taxes, then we'er taxed on personale property, Of coures utilitys and federale taxs, schools(there may as maney as 200+ schools in a county).

Oh then the big one the federale goverment raised our taxes to pay for the billons of dollars given to the refinery to make upgrades to reduse pollution. By the way that was haulted by a bill signed by Bush 2001, but they still got the money and they are going to get more.
the refinery are getting tax cuts right now because their investors want to keep overhead low so they can line their pockets better.

[RednBlack]

kanchou. Do you vote?

[kanchou]

would it have made a differnce if used a dimond as an example?
People place value on that which they don't posses or is hard to obtain. If there is only one rock and only one person posses it, then that give the rock value.
You can't eat the rock and would have no pratical value, but it would rare and that would give it value. People would wish to posses the rock and that would give the owner power.

No, it wouldn't make a difference, and here's why. You're still working from the assumption that people have absolutely no control over their own faculties. To you, it seems, Because one person has a diamond, (or rock, or turbocharger, or strip of cloth), and its rare, it automatically means everyone around them wants it and has no control over themsleves.
This conveniently absolves people from the responsibility they have, and it makes it easy to blame the guy for having the rock. thats how many elections are won, by convincing people that the guy with the rock is to blame for all your troubles. :-)

but you didn't answer the quetion. Do "you" have them? why do "you" have them?

I didn't answer because its not relevant to your point. I have things because I want them, not because I need them. I can get free internet from Juno or Netzero, but for my entertainment, I pay for fast internet.
The only way that would be relevant would be if I was somehow convinced I needed those things when I didn't. I don't need the internet connection i have at all. I dont do business with it. . . it doesnt help feed or support me. its purely a want. My friend who programs for Cingular has a T3 line to his house. I've got no delusions that I somehow need to get his kind of fast internet for myself just because he has it.

Credit is a seperate issue altogether. Theres credit cards and theres person credit equity; 2 very seperate things.

and yes we do have a state income tax. Altough it's not called that and we don't get anything back from it. WE are taxed based on county, and city taxes, then we'er taxed on personale property, Of coures utilitys and federale taxs, schools(there may as maney as 200+ schools in a county).

Wow. . .so tell me, how many months out of the year do you work for the government?

[kanchou]

kanchou. Do you vote?

I try to. Why?

[RednBlack]

Because, if you vote, you have an opinion. If you don't, then this thread is useless and should be deleted. I vote.

[kanchou]

ah. Well, dont forget. Abstinance is an opinion too. Just not a well thought out one if you want to be effective. :P

I;m currently focusing on local elections right now; These house and senate seats are the ones who write these new laws into place, and people don't think their local elections are as important as the presidential race.