Poor Man's CRYOGENIC AUTO PARTS TREATMENT?

[86FieroSEv6]

It's not "back yard" science. Science is always by the numbers. It's back yard experimentation and that is where all great experiments started. Back on topic, I agree that days are not necessary. Most likely the industry gives such a time window due to the large scale processes they use which would in fact require days for very large areas or mass. For our purposes it will most likely be measured in either minutes (small or few parts) or hours. Of course this will be influenced by the mean density of the original parts' alloy.

[robertisaar]

i had a rather large equation that dealt with mass, known density and specific heat capacity to try and get a realistic number for any metal but in the end, it changed into a lot of gibberish and i couldn't complete it.

[3400-95-Modified]

I have to agree with onefastv6, its really not that expensive to send it out. Also when they do this they drop the temps and hold them for hours or so at a stable temp -300 to be exact, then they let it slowly rise back up to room temp. I can't see you getting that type of control with alcohol and dry ice... Maybe for the fun cool aspect of freezing something, but I can't see this as a good cryogenic solution for engine parts.

If your using a man over board scenario, then explain the process necessary to get a properly heat treated part without it becoming brittle. Its not the same aspect. Just getting the metal cold doesn't complete the process.

More refined info on their racing parts process.

Many people have heard about using deep cryogenic treatment for enhancing the performance properties of their critical racing components. This technology has been widely adopted across many motor sports applications, including automotive racing, motor cross, tractor pulls, kart, boat and skimobile, to name a few. So exactly what is this technology and why are so many racers using it?

First, Deep Cryogenic Treatment is an extended process that very gradually "freezes" or removes heat from the items being treated. It is not a replacement for heat treatment, but rather an extension of the heat-treating process that produces further refinement in the metal. Typically, the parts are brought down to 300 degrees below zero (F) in a very slow ramp and then held at that temperature for an extended dwell (24 hours), before being returned to ambient temperature. The last step is a post temper to +300/ +350 degrees F. The entire process takes about 72 hours.

[60dgrzbelow0]

I have to agree with onefastv6, its really not that expensive to send it out. Also when they do this they drop the temps and hold them for hours or so at a stable temp -300 to be exact, then they let it slowly rise back up to room temp. I can't see you getting that type of control with alcohol and dry ice... Maybe for the fun cool aspect of freezing something, but I can't see this as a good cryogenic solution for engine parts.

If your using a man over board scenario, then explain the process necessary to get a properly heat treated part without it becoming brittle. Its not the same aspect. Just getting the metal cold doesn't complete the process.

More refined info on their racing parts process.

Mr. Pink... I'll echo your taking sides with onefastv6... because he is absolutely right... fooling around with expensive performance components that might fail unexpectedly in anyone's motor is probably foolhardy... But I really cannot wait to get my hands on this stuff and just do a little experimenting...just to determine if it might have other practical uses as well...like razor blades and Phillips Screw Gun Tips, etc... But Man... when I saw that YouTube video... I thought about your Timing Set and my teeth started chattering for wanting to try it out... In the end ... I must demure to your combined common sense though... (Dammit! I HATE when common sense and good judgment get in the way of experimentation...I HATE when that happens!!! For me... this is like "Metallurgy 101... Chilled... Shaken... but NOT stirred". What I REALLY want to try it out on is the set of LS1 Brake Disks I have set aside to install on my 1993 Z-28. Goddamit... I'm gonna find some White Papers on this subject matter and bone up enough to try some of these things out!


"Chance Favors the Prepared Mind...." (Dr. Louis Pasteur)

[60dgrzbelow0]

i had a rather large equation that dealt with mass, known density and specific heat capacity to try and get a realistic number for any metal but in the end, it changed into a lot of gibberish and i couldn't complete it.

Robert... FWIW...

Considering the Definition of "Specific Heat" relating to the Law of the Conservation of Energy, it follows that it requires a measurement that calculates: How Many BTUs are Required to Heat One Pound of Any Substance to One Degree Fahrenheit?. I'm not certain if you can use "Specific Heat" in your Thermal Equations...but if so...it follows that with Water, the measurement is 1.0 on the Specific Heat Scale...for Air...it's 0.238...for Ice it's 0.504...and so forth. But for our purposes... For Iron... its average measurement is: 0.130. I hope this helps with your calculations. The other part of the problem is knowing HOW LONG it takes to remove the Specific Heat from Iron by means of Conduction versus Convection or Radiation. Knowing how long it takes a pound of Iron to cool down from say 1,000 Degrees F WITHOUT WARPING OR CRACKING THE MATERIAL BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENTIAL REMOVAL OF HEAT ALONG ITS THREE DIMENSIONS would help to identify a proper and acceptable time graduation for cooling things down and then bringing them back to normal room temperature. I cannot help but think that some amount of speed in this process forces the atoms of the metal to contract quickly enough to remain in their newer, tighter and denser dimensions... Yes? Also... I think we can dispense with any concerns over "Sensible Heat" and "Latent Heat" entirely as affecting your calculations.

Does this link help us at all?

http://www.melindalee.com/Cast-Iron.html

[robertisaar]

and now i know why i quit the equation....

some of those types of measurements, i just cannot work into any kind of sensible math.