Raise the car

[Anonymous]

Good for you dude, I really look forward to seeing your headers!


And not to argue, but I was comparing my car to another W-body. And I am positive that all W-bodies share the EXACT same front subframe, no matter what engine it has(2.5, 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, etc).

I sure hope you don't scrape, becuz it definately would on mine. It will clear going under my oil pan, but not under the crossmember behind the oil pan underneath the axle.

[quantum110]

And not to argue, but I was comparing my car to another W-body. And I am positive that all W-bodies share the EXACT same front subframe, no matter what engine it has(2.5, 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, etc).

Are you willing to put money on that Aaron...because I'm quite positive the Impala's have a longer Aluminum Sub frame, and am pretty sure the new Grand Prix's and Monte's do too.

[v6h.o.]

yeah the new Wbodies use an Aluminum subframe.... i had one, untill i cut it all up completely for good aluminum material for another one of my projects

aaron remember i have a Jbody... so i dont have to worry about "crossmembers" in my way.

[RednBlack]

I remember seeing a set of headers in a previous thread that did go under the crossmember. (I just can't find it.) Wasn't a lot of clearance, but they did clear. Can anyone find this pic and repost it here? That's where my thought of raising a bit came from. I also can't pull up the pics of Aaron's headers. 404 error/page not found. :wtf1:

[dykz34]

I also can't pull up the pics of Aaron's headers. 404 error/page not found. :wtf1:

I took them down.

[brian89gp]

I remember seeing a set of headers in a previous thread that did go under the crossmember. (I just can't find it.) Wasn't a lot of clearance, but they did clear. Can anyone find this pic and repost it here? That's where my thought of raising a bit came from. I also can't pull up the pics of Aaron's headers. 404 error/page not found. :wtf1:

Those where John V.'s. His car was lowered and had about 1" of ground clearance. If the collector were placed further back there might be just over 2" of clearance. He took them back off cause they were dragging and catching on everything.

http://www.brian89gp.com/misc/kickingz.jpg

When we were on the way to the exhaust shop, I think it was the rear header fell off the head flange and started dragging. It might have been the front, its been too long ago. Anyway there was maybe 1/4" of clearance to get the car onto a flatbed tow truck between the header and truck deck.

And if I had to do headers, I would weld a larger pipe crosswise into the subframe and then run the exhaust piping through that. I would run the front through both cross members in the subframe and the rears out the stock location.

[RednBlack]

I also can't pull up the pics of Aaron's headers. 404 error/page not found. :wtf1:

I took them down.

Found that out. Oh Well. The other pic is the right one. Thanx.

[Lyle's GTP]

Lyle's GTP wrote:
Quote:

No joke... new struts (KYB GR2s) raised the rear of my car about 2"


Ok, let me get this straight, you have a W-body with a rear monoleaf suspension. You replaced the rear struts (shock absorbers), and it raised the car? Shock absorbers only dampen the oscillation of the springs, they have nothing to do with ride height. Unless your old struts we so fucked, they were seized in the down position. Then your suspension would have been "held" down by the struts. Therfore any old brand of struts would have had the same effect.

Lyle


Ya Jackass. Don't talk to me like I don't know what I am talking about. I believe it was you in another thread that posted about camshaft bearings in the DOHC... try again. Yes, the new struts raised the rear about 1.5-2" Do I need to dig up the damn pictures? The old FE3 struts were beyond shot. When I removed them they bottomed with the touch of my finger and stayed bottomed. The KYB are GAS struts, not oil like the FE3 stuff. The KYBs therefore apply upward pressure at all times. Hence, the ride height increased. So ya, get it straight.

Well, a little touchy, I guess. Yeah, cam bearings. I guess the "bearing" would be the oil that runs between the aluminum housing and the camshafts at about .002" of clearance. I'm not sure exactly what this tupe of bearing set-up is called, but it is a bearing.

Oh, and about the KYB's. Mine were fucked too, but when I installed the GR-2's, my ride height didn't increase at all. Besides, who wants to install "preformance" struts that raise the car? Most people want to lower their cars, not raise them. I'm not positive, but I think that KYB would have taken this into consideration, when engineering there struts. Plus, yes the KYB's when you pushed them in (by hand) they would return to the extended position. But it would only take maybe 10 Lbs of pressure to move them. So, in that case what would that raise the car? Maybe an 1/8 of an inch or less.

Lyle

[bszopi]

I put lowered Eibach springs and KYB shocks on my Beretta (true, not a monoleaf setup like the W-bodies) and it actually raised the rear end slightly. It was because the stock shocks AND springs were just that worn out.

[Lyle's GTP]

Yeah, springs will do that. The New lower springs still would have been alot better, because the oscillation would be alot less than those tired stock ones. My brother-in-law, once lowered his brothers POS car, by heating the springs up with a torch until they started to drop, once they reached a predetermined height he stopped. Definatily would have road worse. However, as redneck as it was I guess they never had any problems until he wrote it off.

Lyle

[Anonymous]

And if I had to do headers, I would weld a larger pipe crosswise into the subframe and then run the exhaust piping through that. I would run the front through both cross members in the subframe and the rears out the stock location.

So run the fronts below the car, down by the starter, and through the frame there and back. I was actually considering this, but it seemed easwier just to follow the stock location. I did not have room to run my rear header through the back subframe leaving some of the frame above and below it unfortunately. The rear frame is like a (below) shape and there is "pipe" that runs behind it that I didn't want to cut, and I don't think should be cut for it had something to do with steering I think. So I had to cut out a upside down U shape.

|\o
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But on a positive, without the front downpipe in the way, it will be easy to fit the rear header, keep it equal length, and collect it. One other problem I had is the rear header sat kind of low, so I had to use some pipe to turn it up a little. The pics will explain this better once I get them.

[RednBlack]

Welcome back Aaron.

[jmgtp]

Lyle's GTP wrote:
Quote:

No joke... new struts (KYB GR2s) raised the rear of my car about 2"


Ok, let me get this straight, you have a W-body with a rear monoleaf suspension. You replaced the rear struts (shock absorbers), and it raised the car? Shock absorbers only dampen the oscillation of the springs, they have nothing to do with ride height. Unless your old struts we so fucked, they were seized in the down position. Then your suspension would have been "held" down by the struts. Therfore any old brand of struts would have had the same effect.

Lyle


Ya Jackass. Don't talk to me like I don't know what I am talking about. I believe it was you in another thread that posted about camshaft bearings in the DOHC... try again. Yes, the new struts raised the rear about 1.5-2" Do I need to dig up the damn pictures? The old FE3 struts were beyond shot. When I removed them they bottomed with the touch of my finger and stayed bottomed. The KYB are GAS struts, not oil like the FE3 stuff. The KYBs therefore apply upward pressure at all times. Hence, the ride height increased. So ya, get it straight.

Well, a little touchy, I guess. Yeah, cam bearings. I guess the "bearing" would be the oil that runs between the aluminum housing and the camshafts at about .002" of clearance. I'm not sure exactly what this tupe of bearing set-up is called, but it is a bearing.

Oh, and about the KYB's. Mine were fucked too, but when I installed the GR-2's, my ride height didn't increase at all. Besides, who wants to install "preformance" struts that raise the car? Most people want to lower their cars, not raise them. I'm not positive, but I think that KYB would have taken this into consideration, when engineering there struts. Plus, yes the KYB's when you pushed them in (by hand) they would return to the extended position. But it would only take maybe 10 Lbs of pressure to move them. So, in that case what would that raise the car? Maybe an 1/8 of an inch or less.

Lyle

Dood I don't know what to tell you. Ride height went up after the new struts. No matter what your reasoning is, your wrong - I saw it with my own eyes and the gap between the tire and fender flare increased noticeably. I'll find the pics just to shut you up. And no it's not a bearing.

[GPXSS]

If you have a set of crapped out gas shocks/struts.. they will not want to push upward on the mount. Its like the gas struts used for hoods and hatch lids, even though they are there for dampening purposes, they are also used as a spring mechanism to provide upward lift. Bad ones won't do this, new ones will.

[Lyle's GTP]

Dood I don't know what to tell you. Ride height went up after the new struts. No matter what your reasoning is, your wrong - I saw it with my own eyes and the gap between the tire and fender flare increased noticeably. I'll find the pics just to shut you up. And no it's not a bearing.

Ok, fine. They raised your car. They didn't raise mine. Whatever.

Alright, if you don't think that our cams have bearings, then what do they have? What stops them from burning out?

Now, Yes they do have bearings and if you even argue this with me anymore you are a moron. The type of bearing that our cams have is a "Lubricated Plane Bearing" In this type of bearing the cam housing acts as the "Outer Race" and the camshaft acts as the "Inner Race". Oil is then pumped between the race's. This provides the load bearing mechanism and lubrication for the system. This type of bearing is used where the least amount of mechanical parts are required with the maximum amount of load capacity. ie. Internal engine bearings. The main bearings and rodbearings are the exact same design. The only thing is that, one of the race's (commonly outer) has to be a soft material. ie, Brass, Bronze, Nylotron, Babot, etc. and in the case of our cams Aluminum. That's why we install "bearings" in our engines. This material is known as Babot which is a soft alloy. The babot acts as the "outer race" in place of the cast iron in this design.

I hope this explains a little. Keep in mind, I am an industrial mechanic and install bearings that are worth alot more than your car.

Lyle