We have lift off!!!

[Schmieder]

Got the fuel pump in and she runs absolutely fantastic!

In fact, she was running a little rich which is great. I tuned the VE tables and the LTFT/STFT are a steady +/- 0-2.

I enabled the MAF after the VE tune and the MAF tune is pretty good. I will tighten the tune up a little better but it is still LTFT/STFT within +/- 2-4

AFR lock in at 12 during PE. I will tune it for 11.5 AFR soon.

So far I have it set a 3psi. I will go up to 5psi in the next few days. This part I will take slowly. I have many years to drive this new turbo, so I can take my time tuning it up for higher boost, no more then 8psi. But I think I'll settle for 5psi for now.

But let me tell you all, even at 3psi she runs like a bat out of hell.

So for all you who have been watching my progress, it was the fuel pump for sure. In fact, the old pump had signs of overheating. It was burnt brown near the terminals. The new pump sounds so smooth and she starts up very nice. No extra cranking, seems to start in less then 1 second.

I stepped out of the car after a nice WOT and shouted, "Victory is mine!!!"



To all of you here at 60degreev6.com, thank you all so very much for all the help I have received here. You made it possible for this novice mechanically inclined hotshot to build his 96 Grand Prix 3100 TURBO.

I feel great!

EDIT I: Will be working on videos soon. I promise!

EDIT II: So I have it tuned for 7psi. My God!!! I loose traction all the way up to 45mph. So I have to learn how to work the pedal now and it isn't as easy as I thought it would be. When I do get traction, it pulls hard! HARD!!!

I have the AFR hitting 11.5 in the first few seconds of PE/BOOST and it gradually runs to 11 AFR.

Is that a good AFR? Or should I tune it to 11 at first gradually getting to 10.5 during PE/Boost?

Idle and cruise is 14.4 to compensate for the ethanol guesstimated at 5%.

HAIR ON FIRE TEARING UP THE FREEWAY!!!

[DefEddie]

Cool beans.

[robertisaar]

11.5:1 may be a tad too rich for optimal torque... you might gain power by leaning it out, but SMALL steps there...

[Schmieder]

11.5:1 may be a tad too rich for optimal torque... you might gain power by leaning it out, but SMALL steps there...

At this point it seems I have all the power I could need, lol. Now I have to learn how to push the throttle as far as possible w/o spin out. If I just floor it I loose traction. Even at 45mph.

But I guess stepping up to optimal will also be good for fuel economy and o2 sensor longetivity.

Small steps is right. I have plenty of time to fine tune it. Being a musician, a good tune doesn't happen quickly. Not the best example but it drives the point home.

I plan to have a tune for each season. Especially adjusting the tune for fuels summer and winter blends.

Ah it's soo bad ass. I love it. All the hard work has paid off so far.

[IsaacHayes]

Welcome to the no traction club. PITA isn't it?

Now you just need a progressive boost control to ramp up the boost as MPH comes up and some good wide sticky tires....

I plan to pull spark until XX MPH in my tune to help with traction.

[Schmieder]

Welcome to the no traction club. PITA isn't it?

Now you just need a progressive boost control to ramp up the boost as MPH comes up and some good wide sticky tires....

I plan to pull spark until XX MPH in my tune to help with traction.

It's a PITA and a Glorious feeling all wrapped in one

Those are great ideas.

Wide sticky tires are being noted as a must!

I plan to pull spark until XX MPH in my tune to help with traction.

So spark can be closer to TDC at lower RPM to help spool up the turbo as the gasses will have a longer burn/expansion when the evo's. Thus reducing over all engine torque but also spooling up the turbo faster?

I figured good ole skills with the pedal could also maximize acceleration and minimize tire spin. I'm finding the trickiest part is just when the boost kicks in strong having to back off the pedal slightly then reintroduce more throttle just to the edge of tire spin. After all, gotta get the turbo to spool up then control the throttle just right.

Pulling spark may just make that concept much easier, I like the idea.

What amount of degree should one pull if I were to experiment with such a method? If you don't mind sharing your tactics

[IsaacHayes]

My application is N/A. So I pull timing instead of boost to keep traction. Both $DF and the V8 TPI OBD1 code have the ability to do this. I'm not sure which code mask I will run. Basically you dial in how much timing to pull until you hit your desired MPH. It's a table IIRC. It will make it more fun as you can just floor it and it will hook and slowly add timing until you are at a "safe" MPH to unleash all the horses. I haven't got to this road yet, I have a lot of things to do before I start tuning on the orange car. Once I'm tuning and the mechanical/mounts/etc are figured out then I will swap my hybrid over and unleash it.

As it is, with 18" wheels and nitto neo-gens with a stock 3400 (exhaust+UDP) behind a 5spd when you break the tires free, they do so instantly and you hit the rev limiter in a split second. Backing off the throttle does not help, you can let off totally and the wheels keep spinning and slowly spin down... They never really seem to "catch". I think it's a combo of stiff short sidewall from the 18"s and not having the drive train aligned just right (need to move the passenger side back 1").

[Schmieder]

My application is N/A. So I pull timing instead of boost to keep traction. Both $DF and the V8 TPI OBD1 code have the ability to do this. I'm not sure which code mask I will run. Basically you dial in how much timing to pull until you hit your desired MPH. It's a table IIRC. It will make it more fun as you can just floor it and it will hook and slowly add timing until you are at a "safe" MPH to unleash all the horses. I haven't got to this road yet, I have a lot of things to do before I start tuning on the orange car. Once I'm tuning and the mechanical/mounts/etc are figured out then I will swap my hybrid over and unleash it.

As it is, with 18" wheels and nitto neo-gens with a stock 3400 (exhaust+UDP) behind a 5spd when you break the tires free, they do so instantly and you hit the rev limiter in a split second. Backing off the throttle does not help, you can let off totally and the wheels keep spinning and slowly spin down... They never really seem to "catch". I think it's a combo of stiff short sidewall from the 18"s and not having the drive train aligned just right (need to move the passenger side back 1").

Ok, the timing thing seems easy to do. Just about how much timing have you or would one pull, 10*?

3400, underdrive pulley and exh+, how did the UDP feel? Was it worth the horses?

Got to run, will be back to discuss pulling timing later. I want to get any details I should be aware of. I have one turbo, lol, no room for ooops

[IsaacHayes]

I haven't even soldered the PCM connectors together to plug in a PCM (so I'm not tuning anything yet), and the orange car is not drivable right now (just got shifter and cables as the other stuff in it broke and was not for a beretta) 1st gear is/was useless as far as traction, and 2nd would break free at 3000 RPM and fling you into the other lane with you INSTANTLY hitting the rev limiter. 1st at no matter what speed, go more than 50% throttle and the tires just spun and you didn't move.

I bought the car with a 3400, 5spd, and the UDP/exhaust was already there. I'm yanking the 3400 out, and putting in a 3400 with ported 3500 top end, 11.5:1 compression, headers, cam, etc. I already have the motor, headers are on the way. I basically bought the car drove it home (with duct tape to hold the shift cables together) and it's sat in the garage since. The UDP is not going on the new motor.

I don't know what table you can use in OBDII to pull timing... OBDII though has a lot of torque management so maybe modifying one of those tables will work...

I'm using OBDI, with $DF 3.4 DOHC code (got this PCM to shift my 4t60-e trans in the blue car) and there is a table dealing with launch torque that the factory uses to add timing to help it launch off the line.. Basically you'd modify that table to PULL timing instead. So you could have it pull 10* until 45mph or whatever.

There is TPI V8 OBDI code too that some guys at V6z24.com are running on their setups, and I think they are using a modified code with added features programmed into the bin, one being a traction table that pulls timing until X MPH then goes to normal...

As far as how much, who knows. My setup is different than yours of course (boost vs N/A, auto vs 5spd). You could start at 10 and then dial in more or less until it hooks and pulls the most before breaking free...

My trans puts more power to the ground, and suddenly. I don't even have to TRY to make them spin. If I had the 4t60-e behind that stock 3400 it wouldn't spin like that due to the longer gearing and less power to the wheels, but it probably wouldn't be as fast either. I really don't know how fast the orange car is compared to my modified 3100 in the blue car since I can't get traction...

I haven't really drove the orange car other than hobbling it home. Only a few times was I able to get on it.

[Schmieder]

I haven't even soldered the PCM connectors together to plug in a PCM (so I'm not tuning anything yet), and the orange car is not drivable right now (just got shifter and cables as the other stuff in it broke and was not for a beretta) 1st gear is/was useless as far as traction, and 2nd would break free at 3000 RPM and fling you into the other lane with you INSTANTLY hitting the rev limiter. 1st at no matter what speed, go more than 50% throttle and the tires just spun and you didn't move.

I bought the car with a 3400, 5spd, and the UDP/exhaust was already there. I'm yanking the 3400 out, and putting in a 3400 with ported 3500 top end, 11.5:1 compression, headers, cam, etc. I already have the motor, headers are on the way. I basically bought the car drove it home (with duct tape to hold the shift cables together) and it's sat in the garage since. The UDP is not going on the new motor.

I don't know what table you can use in OBDII to pull timing... OBDII though has a lot of torque management so maybe modifying one of those tables will work...

I'm using OBDI, with $DF 3.4 DOHC code (got this PCM to shift my 4t60-e trans in the blue car) and there is a table dealing with launch torque that the factory uses to add timing to help it launch off the line.. Basically you'd modify that table to PULL timing instead. So you could have it pull 10* until 45mph or whatever.

There is TPI V8 OBDI code too that some guys at V6z24.com are running on their setups, and I think they are using a modified code with added features programmed into the bin, one being a traction table that pulls timing until X MPH then goes to normal...

As far as how much, who knows. My setup is different than yours of course (boost vs N/A, auto vs 5spd). You could start at 10 and then dial in more or less until it hooks and pulls the most before breaking free...

My trans puts more power to the ground, and suddenly. I don't even have to TRY to make them spin. If I had the 4t60-e behind that stock 3400 it wouldn't spin like that due to the longer gearing and less power to the wheels, but it probably wouldn't be as fast either. I really don't know how fast the orange car is compared to my modified 3100 in the blue car since I can't get traction...

I haven't really drove the orange car other than hobbling it home. Only a few times was I able to get on it.

The PCM has torque control and I thought about it but pulling timing seems attractive to also spool up the turbo faster. I will experiment and see what helps pull the best w/o spin out. I love tinkering with stuff so I will always be adjusting the settings until I get the most pull just before loss of traction.

But yeah, controlling traction is also a safety issue. Like you said, don't want to get thrown into the other lane. I'm a Dad so I am responsible for more then just my life

My boys are 9 yrs and 1.5 yrs old. The oldest absolutely loves the turbo. He brags about it at school. Now I have his friends coming over asking for a burn out. Now boys, that is really bad for the transmission. My oldest had the chance to go along for a few WOT pulls. He was like, "OMG"

Hope all goes well with your orange car.