Cadillac 4.5 into '88 Grand Prix.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

i always thought it would be cool to get a Lumina APV and turn it into a Lumina APZ34

[no_doz]

dont worry-i used to be the "changing his mind every day" guy-&
take it from someone thats done a lot of research & asked a lot of questions about swapping all kinds of engines into all kinds of vehicles-this swap is absolutely not worth attempting if you intend to drive this on the road, & im not just saying that because itll be a bitch to put in-but the fact that it has less power right off the bat-than a stock 3100 or 3400 (155hp in 88 & 89 for the 4.5-while 3100-3400's made 96+ make 160-185 stock) there is loads of info on swapping these 3x00's in & they are cheap to find (i personally like the 3100 for the great mpg & my experiences with them, but most people say screw it & go for the big bore-aka 3400 :P) as well as the swap is not all that difficult if you have a donor car & the tools to swap the engines.

what you need to do is keep your eyes out for a 1996+ cutlass/cutlass supreme/lumina/malibu/3.4 trans sport van (for the 3400) with a trashed transmission. these are usually pretty easy to find for $200-300 for the entire car that starts & runs good (it wont drive mind you :P).

also the 150k mile thing-doesnt really matter with these cars as long as the head/intake gaskets havent taken a shit-if you do the swap i wouldnt worry about having 160-175k on the donor car as long as it runs smoothly & there is no water in the oil-just make sure you replace those intake gaskets with good felpro ones because they are a major weak point.

what city & state are you located in? i can keep my eye out on craigslist in your area & im sure i can find you a sufficient donor car in 1 week for 300 or less. you will need to keep in mind that if you want to do an engine swap-you will need the money for it. if your engine swap budget is $250-you are going to be waiting quite a while to find a $150 donor car & you will also need to consider the change in tune that will be needed for it not to run like S&%! which will cost around $60 from wot-tech.

id say you should account for 400-500 for this swap, you may spend less but it sucks tearing into something & getting screwed 3/4 the way in because your out of money & need something small. good luck

[no_doz]

or you could take your money-buy a set of pistons from wot-tech, get ARP studs for the connecting rods, & better intake gaskets, as well as a tuned prom from flybynight on tgpforums.com (ben doesnt do FI chips from what ive seen-even though if he did hed probably have a lot of customers considering itd be $20-40 less than flybynights $100 pricetag-which in itself still isnt bad at all), intercooler, a set of TGP turbo manny's & a t25, boost gauge & MBC-& have a turbo.

this will net you as much power as a 3400 swap or 3100 swap w headers-but may cost as much as 700 to accomplish (then the bragging rights since no one turbos these).

or a 3.1 or 3500 crank swap & a set of 3400 heads/UIM/LIM as well as custom pushrods & a tune for it from wot-tech.

or if you really want a high hp swap-go find yourself a LQ1 3.4 DOHC (Z34 both lumina & monte carlos, cutlass supremes, grand prix GTP's)-once again a tune will be needed but ill tell you right now those engines are mean as hell (i have one in my garage right now with a GTP wrapped around it...)-a 3.4 DOHC cutlass supreme 91-96 would be a good one to look for because if im not mistaken the engine mounts may work for you with or without a little modification-but YIKES

plenty of options that dont put you through the nightmare of trying to stuff a 150hp cadillac v8 in a fwd & then trying to brag about it to people later on & having them either ridicule you or give puzzled looks because no one puts one of those v8s in just about anything for a reason- they only max at 200hp with MPFI & thats still 10 less than a stock 3.4DOHC, TGP, or $60 tuned 3400 with CAI & bigger tb, or hell even one of those stock oldschool dsm's with a fart can!

on further thought i would shoot for the LQ1-headers-crank scraper-dual exhaust-more free flowing intake-& a tune/bigger tb if you get one made 95+ -with all of that you very well might be pushing 275-280hp (10 hp less than an evo, LS1, 300zx Twin Turbo, or vortec 454). & that will be with less pain in the ass than a 4.5 by FAR-so it really comes down to which would you rather have-10hp less than a 3100 fwd car or 10 less than most 90's big blocks/v8 sports cars?

just a thought

[2.8 Grand Prix]

Thanks for all the ideas!

Although, now I'm so confused, I don't know what to do! LOL! I'll think of something. As of now, the 2.8 is doing ok with only 5 cylinders, so I can wait untill I get a little more money. By the way, I am Iowa, about 35 miles NW of Des Moines. I check the Craigslist every day (sometimes as many as 5-6 times a day) but I may miss something that you might catch. If you want to, you can go ahead and let me know of anything you think I might want. Thanks!

[no_doz]

mp man, what money do you have on hand for a car & are you able to tow it at all or will u need one that can limp home with loads of wonderful tranny slippage?

also if you are wanting power-the 3.4 quad cam LQ1 & some headers- will feed that need for speed

or if you want something rare but awesome once modified (with everything needing to be custom) you could get the 3.2L 24 valve short stroke v6 that comes in the isuzu rodeos 93-95-but i dont think anyone makes any parts for it-altho with a hella tune & some nice mods-that could be a hell of a powerplant as well.

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/cto/1367882105.html

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/cto/1362685091.html

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/pts/1388177793.html

theres a few-what other craigslists are close to you?

[pocket-rocket]

IIRC, those 3.2 24 valve engines are Honda engines. And while most Honda engines are good designs, that engine flat out fails... Do a search on Isuzu Rodeo using oil/Honda Passport using oil. You will be in for a big let down. My mom had one, and this is how I found out about those engines. Honda made ring tolerances too close on the pistons, the rings get stuck, and according to Isuzu dealers 1 quart of oil usage every 1000 miles is not excessive. There were a lot of those engines that got starved for oil because of the consumption and ended up trashing cam journals, ect. I tried to unstick the rings in my moms Rodeo with some Sea Foam because it had lost all compression and wouldn't even run. I thought timing belt because it didn't sound right while cranking like the cam timing was off. Changed the belt and it sounded a little better, but that's when I found the oil consumption deal. The Sea Foam made it where I could get it to run in the driveway, but barely, so she took it back to the dealer and they replaced the engine with a junkyard unit. It ran fine for a while, but not too much longer later, it fouled up again while still under the junkyard warranty, so they replaced it for free. I don't remember if it messed up yet again, or she didn't trust it after that and ended up trading it in on a Toyota RAV-4 S.

[no_doz]

thats why i said with lots of mods-some sealed power gapless rings, have someone make a timing chain set (you migth be able to find or adapt one), custom headers, etc... itd had plenty of potential but itd have to be all custom & have a good bit of work done to it as well as a tune-just tossing that out there cuz it does bolt up to the trans.

[robertisaar]

1 quart of oil usage every 1000 miles is not excessive.

don't suppose that applies to my 3100

it somehow loses/ingests about that amount...

itd had plenty of potential but itd have to be all custom

exact problem of the LQ1...

[no_doz]

bad rings/valve seals/worn cylinder walls.

[robertisaar]

bad rings/valve seals/worn cylinder walls.

it also seems to like sipping through the PCV....

no smoke though, so i'm thinking its losing it rather than burning it.... for the most part.

[pocket-rocket]

One nice thing was the 3.2 DOHC Honda engine did have solid lifters too.

You try installing a home made oil catch can on that bad boy, Robert?

[robertisaar]

You try installing a home made oil catch can on that bad boy, Robert?

not going to bother. if it sucks up enough to cause oil starvation, thats all the more reason to start on the 3900 swap...

[2.8 Grand Prix]

Thanks you guys!

I have a lot of new ideas now! I just got my paycheck today, so it's time for some fun! Now I just need to decide what engine I want to put in.

By the way, how many of you with 3.1/3100s have had problems with head gaskets. The mechanic that we go to says of all the GM engines, he has replaced more head gaskets on 3.1/3100s than anything else. I would really like to stay away from any un-needed work.

Are there any problems I should know about with the 3.4? I don't want the DOHC version 'cause I can't afford both an engine and a tranny right now.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. They have all helped me decide what route to take in my engine swap.

[robertisaar]

i rarely see 3x00s with head gasket issues. its always the LIM but gets misdiagnosed as head gaskets, but since the LIM gasket gets changed during the headgasket change, they assume it was right...

get the felpro problem saver full metal LIM gaskets and remove the worry....

3.4(in the way you're using it) can mean

f-body motor: old block, iron heads
LQ1: DOHC
3400: newer motor, aluminum heads, basically a big bore 3100.

finding a low-mileage 3400 for cheap is fairly easy. hell jmgtp just picked up a 50K mile 3500 for $300...

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

a motor swap sounds like fun, and a cool way to make a one of a kind car. maybe i should ground my lumina for a year or so while i fix EVERYTHING on it. lol