Squishy Brakes - 97 Saturn

[jmgtp]

I know, air in the system right...

I've bled them countless times. I used the 2 man, foot pedal/open bleeder method. I've vacuum bled them and I've even pressure bled them. Regardless the method, I only get clean clear fluid - no bubbles and no pedal improvement.

When bleeding failed I replaced the master cylinder and bench bled the new one. Pedal, STILL squishy. I replaced the rear wheel cylinders, you guessed it - still squishy.

The pads up front and shoes in back are new. I adjusted the rear brakes so the shoes drag just a bit. The boots around the caliper pistons look good and there are no visible leaks in the system. The resevoir is full and does not lose fluid.

It really feels like air in the system but I sure can't seem to purge it. Drum brakes are not my forte, can they be adjusted incorrectly and have this effect? I have them dragging just a bit. The car stops and even has the braking power to lock up the wheels but the pedal feels like I'm stomping on a banana. What am I missing here?

[Firehawk94]

My wife and I have a 97 saturn SC2 and we havent had any problems with our brakes. Ive bled them with no problem at all in the past. I wouldnt set your rear brakes to drag a bit though, that is unneeded wear and tear on both your drum and shoes. You know, most master cylinders are remanufactured and that means you cannot rule out a faulty master cylinder. Even with a new one for that matter...... I would try and return the MC and see what you get with a new one. If you cannot see any leaks and you are 100% positive you have bled the shit out of the system on the front and the back starting with the wheel farthest from the master cylinder and working your way to the front meaning, Passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front in that order and you are certain that the car will still stop on a dime, then I would simply not worry about it you have exhausted all the possibilities to my knowledge, not inless the problem lies within the ABS unit.....

[3400-95-Modified]

Brake booster gone bad?

Some cheesy info I found about soft pedals... Sounds like you covered all the other bases already.

Brake Pedal Goes Too Far Down to Stop. If you step on the brake pedal and it feels like it's going too far down before you start to slow, you might have the following problems:


•Low Brake Fluid Level: Check your brake fluid. If it's low, top it off to the mark on the side of the reservoir.
•Contaminated Brake Fluid: Even though your brakes operate in a closed system, contaminants can still work there way into the works. Air can enter the system through the smallest hole, and you can end up with water in the system from condensation and other means. There's not really any way to check for this, but bleeding your brakes will remove the bad stuff and replace it with new fluid.
•Worn Brake Pads: Your brakes should never wear low enough to cause your brake pedal to feel low, they'll scream at you before then. But if they do get very low, you might have this problem. Replace your brake pads as soon as possible. Of course, this can be avoided with regular brake inspection.
•Bad Brake Power Boost Unit Finally, if your brake booster goes bad you'll have low brake pedal issues. Most brake boosters are vacuum controlled, so a special vacuum measurement device that connects to the brake booster is needed to check it. If it's bad, you'll have to replace the boost unit.

I keep reading different theory's that if you have a bad booster your pedal will be harder and not move... but I don't know... Isn't that how you would want your pedal to feel or am I just crazy... LOL

[jmgtp]

I don't think it's the master. Here was probably nothing wrong with the original and the replacement made no difference so that leads me to believe the master should be okay. I always bleed from furthest away from master to closest and I did each mejod multiple times. The car doesn't have abs. I'm not doubting that it's air but I just don't know where it is or how to bleed it out at this point.

[Firehawk94]

It doesnt have ABS? Are you sure? What model do you have? My Wife has an SC2 like I previously said and it does have ABS. I thought ABS was a federally mandated standard to be installed on every vehicle?

[jmgtp]

No abs. It was an option and this car is not equipped. It is an SL1.

[walterdude]

Believe it or not, my 99 Lumina DOESN'T have ABS.... My friend is parts manager at a Chevy dealer and couldn't believe it... He ran the VIN and it came back as NOT having it.. He called the other parts guys over to show them. Everyone there thought they ALL came with ABS!!!
I questioned the Booster also,, or the big Vacuum line going to the booster, when they get soft they can cause a "squishy" brake pedal...
Good luck,,
Tom..

[jmgtp]

How can a going bad booster / booster vacuum line cause a squishy pedal? I'd think it would cause the opposite...

[Firehawk94]

Oh ok, back on subject.....Maybe your rubber hoses are swelling due to age and heat....(the rubber hoses that are connected to the hard lines going to your calipers and drums). Have somebody press on the pedal and see if they are swelling up excessively. This is the only other thing I could think of especially since you have changed your wheel cylinders, master cylinder and have no visible leaks. This is quite puzzling, but consider the issue that i put forth above, dont rule this out because it is quite possible.

[jmgtp]

hmm... that is a good one. I don't think I checked the rubber hoses so I will definetly do that.

[3400-95-Modified]

I questioned the Booster also,, or the big Vacuum line going to the booster, when they get soft they can cause a "squishy" brake pedal...
Good luck,,
Tom..

Thats what I read somewhere....

How can a going bad booster / booster vacuum line cause a squishy pedal? I'd think it would cause the opposite...

And this is what I thought too... LOL, Who knows... Some people say a bad booster will cause the pedal to drop to the floor, others say the pedal will barely move. Odd I tell ya.

[RidgeRunner]

Even my '02 SL1 lacks ABS. I found that odd after having a '93 Sunbird with it, but that's how it is.

[Firehawk94]

Even my '02 SL1 lacks ABS. I found that odd after having a '93 Sunbird with it, but that's how it is.

Yeah, Saturn has been a long way and is known for producing cheap, affordable transportation. Im not knocking saturn one bit and i actually like their new lineup of cars especially the Sky, my wife loves that car and wants one pretty bad, but I tell her to not let her eyeballs overload her wallet But I do have one concern for the Sky its a 32000 dollar convertible roadster, but here is the thing...it doesnt have a powered convertible top.....yeah its manual, meaning you pay 32 grand to put your top down yourself. Thats crap in my book, but is really is an awe inspiring car and drives really well.

Sorry to jack the thread up, but this is the off topic forum....and well....anything goes! lol