Transmission discussion

[JasonZ34]

Was watching spike tv when Funk Master Flex was talking about "sleepers" and one guy said he had a manual transmission with an automatic first.

Now I've never heard of such a thing and was wondering if anyone has, and what advantage it would have other then not having to shift in first? or am i thinking something he didn't mean?

[Lyle's GTP]

That doesn't sound right. Above all, wouldn't you want to have the most control over first gear. It makes sense to get the proper RPM's before you launch. Isn't that the primary advantage of a stick over an automatic? I don't own one but that's what I would think.

Lyle

[phantom505]

About the first post. WTF. Even if that's possible it's retarded. Why don't they get Chrysler Slushbox if that's what they want.



The more and more I've looked into transmissions, the more I've decided that autos are really better in the end.

Reasons:
1) Consistency. Most people can't drive a stick worth a dang, and even so consistency is a problem.
2) Power handling. The assumption is that manuals are stronger than autos. This is very true stock. However, you can build a auto with no lock up that will handle more power than a manual can dream of.
3) Turbo. Most people prefer manuals, well if you build the auto and make it snappy, it's just as good and often better. For one thing I never loose boost in an auto during shifting. Manuals tend to blow off because you have to get off the throttle.

The BIG reason to go manual is for things like autocross. However, I'm plan on the 1/4 or the big ovals so a manual won't be useful.

[geoffinbc]

Auto's own in drag racing. Even Top alcohol uses an automatic based tranny. The only difference is the clutches and bands in the tranny are either mechanically or air actuated by the driver instead of by hydraulics and a computer. The most common form of this tranny is the Lenco. These trannies however do not use a torque converter they use a preset clutch. The clutch however is fulley engaged at the line and is actually slipping until they release the trans brake. Basically what makes and Auto (or in this case an Lenco) so great is the planetary gearset. Their design is inherently strong.

Back in the day people would take a GM powerglide hook it to a clutch and modify the tranny so it would only shift when the lever was shifted. This was (or is) called "A poor mans Lenco"

[Lyle's GTP]

Planetary gear set, that's fucking awesome. Is there even stronger design out there? But that is an expensive gearbox design, how much is one of those tranny's worth.

Lyle

[Juglenaut]

Auto's own in drag racing. Even Top alcohol uses an automatic based tranny. The only difference is the clutches and bands in the tranny are either mechanically or air actuated by the driver instead of by hydraulics and a computer. The most common form of this tranny is the Lenco. These trannies however do not use a torque converter they use a preset clutch. The clutch however is fulley engaged at the line and is actually slipping until they release the trans brake. Basically what makes and Auto (or in this case an Lenco) so great is the planetary gearset. Their design is inherently strong

If I could just push a gas pedal and steer I would be a top-fuel winner too....

Manuals show that a person can really drive their engine not just push and go.


Then why do most race events Like Nascar, Indy to name some use mostly Manuals???

[StudlyCamaro]

Then why do most race events Like Nascar, Indy to name some use mostly Manuals???

to take advantage of being able to downshift out of turns and not worry about the torque converter getting hot...

if you take 2 cars with built transmissions the only difference is that one is an automatic thats tweaked and the other has a manual in a drag race with 2 perfect drivers (dead hooking the launch and the manual driver shifting as fast as he can at the perfect RPM) the automatic will win, you arent going to be able to recreate the stall to torque ratio a high stall converter will give you with a clutch, and no matter how fast a human shifts its not gonna be as fast as an automatic car with a good shift kit

and not many people can drive a car with a manual trans to get the most out of it

[bszopi]

Back to the subject at hand... could they possibly be talking about the "manu-matics" that alot of cars are coming out with nowadays?

[xxrollin]

I've herd of this before but what I think he's talking about is that most auto's have a bigger first gear, (1st gear at say 6000rpm's in an auto might pull to 40mph, 1st gear in a manual at 6000rpm's might pull to 25-30mph) I've herd of people doing this just cause in most applications with a manual, 1st is a waste. Could also be looking for a closer ratio between 1st and 2nd. My 95 GAGT has a 4T60E (stock) and it always pulled to 40-45 in first. My friends Z24 with a stick would do 30. I always got him off the line and I'd be hitting 90 before he began catching up....

[RebelGT]

i wouldnt really say that top fuelers have an auto, there isn't multiple grear ratios, its just one gear ratio, and stages of slipping clutches like on a gokart from what i understand.

[JasonZ34]

More information than i planned on getting but interesting.

xxrollin
How does hold first make it faster, just longer before you have to shift gears? I would think this would possible decrease 60' times.

About drag racing, i've never asked anyone what they have despite being right next to the top fuel cars on the 1/4 I was simply overwhelmed by the noise, the gas fumes causing my nose to bleed, and the rubber they flicked off that i was covered in.

[xxrollin]

I never said it was to make the car faster. It might, I dont know. Like I said, I've herd of it done before, reasons, I dunno. I think you'd lose it in the 60' times too. It might be a track thing. I've read about it and heard about it being down. I think that if you got enough power and such a low first, you'll lose traction, maybe its for better traction.. Who knows..??

[xxrollin]

Oh, if you were thinking that cause I said my auto pulled 40-45 in first, I wasnt ever holding it down in first. I put the pedal to the floor and it'd shift at 6250-6500. My friends 3.1 Z24 was sesawin back there changin gears and he claims he was hittin 6500 too. We both think the auto is more consistant, but a manual is more controllable in my opinion.....

[CNCguy]

Back in the 70's, a few companies made kits to use a manual clutch on autos. Some circle track cars use autos with no torque convertors, just a flex plate to eliminate rotating mass.

Marc

[Juglenaut]

Well my Getrag doesn't like to start out in Second Gear...I know that for sure.

It is possible that my ratios are different, I am not sure.