(Poll) Drive By Wire.....

[xxrollin]

Just as the topic states. What do you think, Good/Bad idea, why do you think so. Do you like/dislike, and why. I've got some interesting news that might be creditable. I dunno yet but its scary..... I'll post what I've herd tomarrow around same time.....

P.S.
just looking for opinions.......

[xxrollin]

Oh, sorry but I forgot. If you are unaware of what Drive By Wire means, it means that the trottle body is controlled electronically and not mechanically as most cars are. Who designed it and why, I dunno, but we wont get into that......Thanks

[SappySE107]

i can image a bad voltage regulator in the alt having lots of fun with the throttle for some reason. I like the idea of it but it really depends on how well its implemented right now for its operation. Ill just stick to my throttle cable for now.

[robby1870]

I agree, too much electronic stuff is bad. My dad's friends 99 Intrepid had the VSS go out and consequently, the tranny wouldnt shift out of first.......real helpful on the highway. Thats just dumb, IMO. I think my 92 is about as electronic a car as I ever want to own.

[RidgeRunner]

I don't really like the idea of drive by wire in such an application. That's one of those things that I think shouldn't be made more complex than it has to be.

[Juglenaut]

pretty soon everything is going to electronic, sad really....

But good for the field..

[xtremelumina92]

not if GM is making it! it'll fail and someone will be going 105mph in a school zone cuz of it and they will hit a tree or something like that. I think they should keep it simple.

[v6h.o.]

i HATE it from a technician standpoint.

no longer now under the hood when i need to rev an engine up to either enhance or listen to a engine noise, or rev it to suck down the coolant to toss the rad cap on can i do that anymore..

its a major PITA! have to always get someone to give you a hand by playing with the throttle just to listen to a noise. argh.

[Rhedalert]

it's just a way to force mechanics and DIY'ers to get those scan tool/programmers. I'm sure there's a way to control it that way.

[firechiken]

This has been on Corvettes for a while now, anyone hear of problems with them?

[Lyle's GTP]

New cars are so electronic anyway. I don't think it's a big issue. I've heard though that they will start doing brakes, and steering this way as well. Now way I will buy one of those. I'm not putting my life in the hands of some bitch building circuit boards in a sweat-shop for GM.

lyle

[geoffinbc]

Dont be pussies. You guys sound like all the old carb people who are all scared of EFI. But we all learned to love it.

Colin just bust out the TECHII and rev up the throttle. Or get the oil change bitch to step on the gas.

[xxrollin]

Well I think most of you guys have good answers. But what I herd is coming from a FHP, (Florida Highway Patrol). Hes pretty cool, lives in my friends area and is always talking about cars. The subject came up because he had bought a 2004 Honda Accord for his wife. Hes a GM nut and has always loved big V8's.
But back to the topic, he claims that they had a news brief about some new stuff that will cut your TB out in a snap, meaning if you try to run, you'll be hitting the gas and nothing will happen. The engine will still run so your power steering and brakes will work so you'll be able to safely get the car off the road. He claims that this info came from a group in california and they along with the government are working on a way that all auto manufactures will be able to install some sort of electronic device that will allow police to stop you before you ever decide to run. How true this is, I dunno, but since newer cars are coming down in price so much, its only a matter of time before they will be able to stop you before you ever think about going anywhere... Like I said, this info is not 100%, but is a look at what is to come.....

[v6h.o.]

we have not had any issues over the years with the drive by wire throttle systems causing any faults.

but time will tell.

there are 3 redundant sensors in there to keep from having one of those "my throttle just went wide open on its own" type faults.
i have no problems with drivebywire, except the rant i already posted

[v6h.o.]

for those more interested in these systems some reading for you:


from a '04 CHEV SILVERADO TRUCK:
Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) System Description
The throttle actuator control (TAC) system delivers improved throttle response and greater reliability and eliminates the need for mechanical cable. The TAC system performs the following functions:

Accelerator pedal position (APP) sensing
Throttle positioning to meet driver and engine demands
Throttle position sensing
Internal diagnostics
Cruise control functions
Manage TAC electrical power consumption
The TAC system components include the following:

The APP sensors
The throttle body assembly
The TAC module
The powertrain control module (PCM)
Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor
The accelerator pedal assembly contains 2 individual APP sensors within the assembly. The APP sensors 1 and 2 are potentiometer type sensors, each with the following circuits:

A 5-volt reference circuit
A low reference circuit
A signal circuit
The APP sensors are used to determine the pedal angle. The control module provides each APP sensor a 5-volt reference circuit and a low reference circuit. The APP sensors then provide the control module with signal voltage proportional to pedal movement. Both APP sensor signal voltages are low at rest position and increase as the pedal is applied.

Throttle Body Assembly
The throttle body assembly consists of the throttle body, the throttle position (TP) sensors, and the throttle actuator motor. The throttle body functions similar to a similar to a conventional throttle body with the following exceptions:

An electric motor opens and closes the throttle valve.
The throttle blade is spring loaded in both directions and the default position is slightly open.
There are 2 individual TP sensors within the throttle body assembly.
The TP sensors 1 and 2 are potentiometer type sensors, each with the following circuits:

A 5-volt reference circuit
A low reference circuit
A signal circuit
The TP sensors are used to determine the throttle plate angle. The control module provides each TP sensor a 5-volt reference circuit and a low reference circuit. The TP sensors then provide the control module with signal voltage proportional to throttle plate movement. Both TP sensor signal voltages are low at closed throttle and increase as the throttle opens.

Throttle Actuator Control Module
The throttle actuator control (TAC) module is the control center for the throttle actuator control system. The TAC system is self-diagnosing and provides diagnostic information to the powertrain control module (PCM) through a dedicated serial data line. The TAC achieves throttle positioning by providing a pulse width modulated voltage to the TAC, as directed by the PCM.

Powertrain Control Module
The powertrain control module (PCM) determines the driver's intent, then calculates the appropriate throttle response. This information is sent to the throttle actuator control (TAC) module through a dedicated serial data line.

Modes of Operation
Normal Mode
During the operation of the throttle actuator control (TAC) system, several modes or functions are considered normal. The following modes may be entered during normal operation:

Minimum pedal value--At key-up the powertrain control module (PCM) updates the learned minimum pedal value.
Minimum throttle position (TP) values--At key-up the PCM updates the learned minimum TP value. In order to learn the minimum TP value, the throttle blade is moved to the closed position.
Ice break mode--If the throttle is not able to reach a predetermined minimum throttle position, the ice break mode is entered. During the ice break mode, the control module commands the maximum pulse width several times to the throttle actuator motor in the closing direction.
Battery saver mode--After a predetermined time without engine RPM, the control module commands the battery saver mode. During the battery saver mode, the TAC module removes the voltage from the motor control circuits, which removes the current draw used to maintain the idle position and allows the throttle to return to the spring loaded default position.
Reduced Engine Power Mode
When the PCM detects a condition with the TAC system, the PCM may enter a reduced engine power mode. Reduced engine power may cause one or more of the following conditions:

Acceleration limiting--The control module will continue to use the accelerator pedal for throttle control; however, the vehicle acceleration is limited.
Limited throttle mode--The control module will continue to use the accelerator pedal for throttle control; however, the maximum throttle opening is limited.
Throttle default mode--The control module will turn off the throttle actuator motor and the throttle will return to the spring loaded default position.
Forced idle mode--The control module will perform the following actions:
Limit engine speed to idle by positioning throttle position, or by controlling fuel and spark if throttle is turned off.
Ignore accelerator pedal input.
Engine shutdown mode--The control module will disable fuel and de-energize the throttle actuator.



FROM '00 VETTE:

The throttle actuator control (TAC) system uses vehicle electronics and components to calculate and control the position of the throttle blade. This eliminates the need for a mechanical cable attachment from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body. This system also performs the cruise control functions as well.

The TAC system components include but is not limited to the following:

The Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) sensor
The Throttle Body
The Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) module
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
Each of these components interface together to ensure accurate calculations and control of the throttle position.

Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor

The accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor is mounted on the accelerator pedal assembly. The APP is actually 3 individual accelerator pedal position sensors within 1 housing. Three separate signal, ground and 5.0 volt reference circuits are used to connect the APP and the TAC module. The APP sensor 1 voltage should increase as the accelerator pedal is depressed, from below 1.0 volt at 0 percent pedal travel to above 2.0 volts at 100 percent pedal travel. APP sensor 2 voltage should decrease from above 4.0 volts at 0 percent pedal travel to below 2.9 volts at 100 percent pedal travel. APP sensor 3 voltage should decrease from above 3.8 volts at 0 percent pedal travel to below 3.1 volts at 100 percent pedal travel.

Throttle Body Assembly

The throttle body for the TAC system is similar to a conventional throttle body with a couple of exceptions. One exception being the use of a motor to control the throttle position (TP) instead of a mechanical cable. The other exception is the new design TP sensor. The TP sensor mounts on the side of the throttle body opposite the throttle actuator motor. The TP sensor is actually two individual TP sensors within one housing. Separate signal, ground and 5.0 volt reference circuits are used to connect the TP sensors and the TAC module. The TP sensor 1 signal voltage increases as the throttle opens, from around 1.0 volt at 0 percent throttle to above 3.5 volts at 100 percent throttle. TP sensor 2 signal voltage decreases as the throttle is opened, from around 3.8 volts at 0 percent throttle to below 1.0 volt at 100 percent throttle.

Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Module

The TAC module is the Control Center for the electronic throttle system. The TAC module and the PCM communicate via a dedicated redundant serial data circuit. The TAC module and the PCM monitor the commanded throttle position and compare it to the actual throttle position. This is accomplished by monitoring the APP and the TP sensor. These two values must be within a calibrated value of each other. The TAC module also monitors each individual circuit of the TP sensor and the APP to verify proper operation.