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  • Powerful Plus Mileage

    The main thing that I have discovered through research is that whenever someone talks about a vehicle with good fuel mileage, they generally are talking about a low horsepower small displacement engine. The real change I hope to achieve is to bring back ideas of using large powerful engines and still get reasonable mileage. I plan to post my report on as many auto discussion groups as I can and pray that an auto designer can hear what I have to say.

    Typically, a good mileage vehicle is a foreign 4-cylinder car, which uses a low consumption engine to provide the owner with mileage that is affordable with $3.00 a gallon gas. I have found these vehicles to be slow and displeasing to work on and maintain. However, I believe I have found a solution to the problem.

    All present day vehicles have a similar transmission set up with similar gear ratios. I may not know specifics , but first gear (on 4T60E)is generally a 1.12:1 ratio, 2nd is generally 1:1 drive is 0.89:1 and over drive is 0.84:1. This means that in order to achieve a certain speed, all motors use the same revolutions of the crankshaft (rpm) to reach that speed.

    Now, to keep this simple, I will use the 1:1 ratio to do explanation. Older cars never had an overdrive anyways (this is part of why, even though old cars usually had plenty of power, they had poor mileage). To achieve 60 mph in drive all cars must go between 2000 and 3000 rpm, no matter the engine size. At this rpm a 100 horsepower 4 cylinder engine uses ¼ the fuel that a 400 horsepower V8 would. The V8 would have to go 500 rpm to consume the same amount of fuel as a four cylinder would at 2000.

    With the invention of the over drive great mileage could be achieved, but the average over drive only lowers rpm slightly, making it ideal for smaller engines, because with low torque, the motor will stall if rpms are brought down too much, so if a motor with 4 times as much power was used a gear reduction that is greater can be used without stalling.

    The vehicle that I think would be a great test car to attempt a gear ratio change would be an LS1 corvette (I know that they are expensive but they are light and have powerful engines with 6 speed transmissions). On a corvette, gear 5 is the drive gear and gear 6 is over drive. The reason that it has the same gear ratios in gears 5 and 6 as a regular car is so that it can speed up quicker by keeping the motor in the power band (The Corvette is obviously a performance car).

    Now, if you were to change the corvette’s gearing, it could become an awesome mileage machine. Say you were to give it a different rear axel gearing (perhaps a 1.5:1 ratio) instead of the 3.5:1(est?)that it has sixth gear would be a 500-rpm gear at 60 mph instead of 2000; this would cause a great increase in mileage. You could also maintain the same performance as the original corvette by giving it one or two more over drives (7th, and 8th gears) acceleration would not be changed as the first 6 gears would be the same, and you would still bring down the rpm enough to increase mileage. You could potentially increase top speed also.

    The change of the rear axel could be the best solution for cost efficiency you would simply have to find new gears instead of designing a new transmission; you could also substitute a Corvette for a Camaro similar motor and same transmission. Mileage could be increased even more if you put the same motor and transmission into and even smaller car (Malibu, Cobalt, Ect.) However, all of these things could be done and financed by someone with a slightly larger budget.

    This plan is not a guarantee, I am not an expert, just a high school student, but I hate slow cars, but I also hate bad mileage, and with this plan, I think something good could happen. Thanks for Your few minutes of time and have a good day.

    Name: Joshua Ambrose
    Address: Windom Area Schools
    PO Box C-177
    Windom MN 56101
    Contact: 507-831-6910 x 122

  • #2
    My car does less than 2000 rpm at 60. It does like 2100 at 75...

    The corvette gets 30mpg on the hwy with the 6spd anyways. Better than most cars on the highway...
    sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
    1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
    16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
    Original L82 Longblock
    with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
    Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

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    • #3
      Wow...not real sure what to make of that. I turn 2000rpm for 72mph in my Olds. The Corvette's with their crazy .5:1 sixth gear gets them 1200rpm at 60mph. I know of guys that have turned 34mpg in C5 cars at 70mph. It's pretty amazing.

      The best ways to increase mileage are to watch how you drive, keep weight down, rolling resistance down, and just take it easy on the loud pedal. Keep the maintenance level up, and you're ahead of the game as well.
      Last edited by DEI37; 11-26-2007, 05:52 PM.
      \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

      1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
      1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
      1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

      Comment


      • #4
        The cam has to be chosen for more efficiency at a given cruise RPM. The heads/intake/exhaust are just as big a part of this. Smaller intake ports will create more velocity at lower rpms to keep the fuel in suspension and given a better mixture than a larger port that may flow more on a bench. You could find your milage decrease if you have to throw more fuel at it at the lower RPM to keep the stoich condition in the cylinder.
        Ben
        60DegreeV6.com
        WOT-Tech.com

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        • #5
          You can't just keep turning the engine slower on the highway with higher and higher ratios. Eventually the vehicle will be un able to accelerate against the drag placed on the car. Plus just turning an engine slower does not mean it is using less fuel. The less mechanical advantage you give the engine through the gears the more torque it must make. To make torque you must burn fuel so you just lost your goal.

          The best way to get economy is a light car with a small turbocharged engine. This way when you don't need the power the turbo is pretty much dormant and when you do need to move quick you can floor it and start making boost, which equals power.
          1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
          1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
          Because... I am, CANADIAN

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          • #6
            yes thats why its a good canidate

            Originally posted by IsaacHayes View Post
            My car does less than 2000 rpm at 60. It does like 2100 at 75...

            The corvette gets 30mpg on the hwy with the 6spd anyways. Better than most cars on the highway...
            as far as yor rpm is concerned, are you in the drive gear or over drive? it is marked differently on a lot of cars, for example, my 92 z34, with a 4t60e transmission is marked with first, second, drive, and overdrive, but my friends's grand prix is marked first, second, third, drive, and it has the same transmission. technically, second gear on the 4t60e is 1:1, but i did the most of my research for this school project was in fwd gm cars in the 3rd possition i also used my 87 camaro transmission (th700r4) in 3rd, and my 71 elcamino (th350) in drive, and had similar results. as far as the corvette thing is concerned i agree with you in this, but what i am suggesting is not a super mileage thing but i do beleive it could help considerably.

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            • #7
              u have made the best point yet

              Originally posted by betterthanyou View Post
              You can't just keep turning the engine slower on the highway with higher and higher ratios. Eventually the vehicle will be un able to accelerate against the drag placed on the car. Plus just turning an engine slower does not mean it is using less fuel. The less mechanical advantage you give the engine through the gears the more torque it must make. To make torque you must burn fuel so you just lost your goal.

              The best way to get economy is a light car with a small turbocharged engine. This way when you don't need the power the turbo is pretty much dormant and when you do need to move quick you can floor it and start making boost, which equals power.

              I understand exactly what you are saying, but the corvette has a lot of power, even at low end, and i beleive if u cut down the rpm at hiway speed it will still improve mileage considerably, this is a school project where u must attempt to make change in the world i have sent in a more complex version of what you have read to GM to see what they think, i may not accomplish anything, but at least, i get someone thinking, i have a 72 c-20 that in 4th gear idles at 45 mph, and it gets reasonable mileage, now try that with something lighter, more powerfull, and sleek, then you may have something unique

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              • #8
                you are correct

                Originally posted by DEI37 View Post
                Wow...not real sure what to make of that. I turn 2000rpm for 72mph in my Olds. The Corvette's with their crazy .5:1 sixth gear gets them 1200rpm at 60mph. I know of guys that have turned 34mpg in C5 cars at 70mph. It's pretty amazing.

                The best ways to increase mileage are to watch how you drive, keep weight down, rolling resistance down, and just take it easy on the loud pedal. Keep the maintenance level up, and you're ahead of the game as well.

                6th in a corvette as far as i know is .76:1 but you are verry correct, thats why i think it would be a good canidate, what i intend to do is increase mileage, but not insanely, it would be nice to see 35 mpg in a cheaper car with power too (camaro or cheaper?), other thing as far as your olds is concerned, check your gearing as i have replyd before to someone else, look at that post for explaination

                Comment


                • #9
                  correct, good point like the other guy

                  Originally posted by SappySE107 View Post
                  The cam has to be chosen for more efficiency at a given cruise RPM. The heads/intake/exhaust are just as big a part of this. Smaller intake ports will create more velocity at lower rpms to keep the fuel in suspension and given a better mixture than a larger port that may flow more on a bench. You could find your milage decrease if you have to throw more fuel at it at the lower RPM to keep the stoich condition in the cylinder.
                  like i have stated previously, i am only suggesting a slightley lower road rpm to increase mileage considerably, as i have told that other guy, it would help...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here's the link to GM Powertrain giving specs for the transmissions. This is a 4T65E, but the individual gears for a 4T60E are the same. It's the final drive that is different.



                    Gear Ratios:
                    First: 2.921
                    Second: 1.568
                    Third: 1.000
                    Fourth: 0.705
                    Reverse: 2.385

                    Fifth gear in a Corvette is .74:1, and sixth is .5:1. All this information is on GM Powertrain's website.
                    \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

                    1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
                    1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
                    1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You can only decrease the RPM's to a certain extent before other factors start causing your low RPM to actually hurt MPG. Let me explain. If the motor is not designed for low RPM power, or even if it is and you just go too low then you will need to downshift to accelerate just a little bit or when going up hills. Where I live there are hills everywhere, even on the highways. My car before I modified it and did some maintenance such as new O2 sensor would always shift out of 4th and into 3rd, sometimes 2nd to pull a hill. At 70mph it will downshift up shift back and forth a lot. That wastes fuel. At 75mph the RPM's are a little higher and it never has to downshift. At 1400 RPM at 50mph before I modified my engine with a 3500 intake plenum it would bog and down shift even on a straight road, then it would start speeding up too much since it downshifted and I'd let off. Then I'd hold the pedal again and then it would start slowing down, so I'd add more gas and then it would sense the engine bog and downshift again. Now it actually can pull without even unlocking the torque converter.

                      So hills, engine powerband/etc all come into play.

                      As far as my car, I have L D OD. L is 1st/2nd depending on speed when you engage it, and D is 1-2-3. OD is 1-4. Also when in 4th and then the TCC locks up the RPMS drop a lot too. On the highway you can press the pedal and watch the RPMs shoot up 3 different times the farther you press. Once when the TCC disengages, once when it goes to 3rd, and then finally when it goes to 2nd.

                      I have a 2.97 FDR and my gears are:
                      1) 2.92
                      2) 1.57
                      3) 1.00
                      4) 0.71

                      Some cars being heavier or less aerodynamic or more sporty have a more aggressive FDR. In that case the OD gear is not as good as say my car. That's when the new 5, 6, and 7 speed automatics come into play. That way they can have close quick revving gears and a good OD still, or even 2 OD's that would help with the upshift/downshift syndrome I described on certain roads and speeds if properly programed and designed.
                      sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
                      1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
                      16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
                      Original L82 Longblock
                      with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
                      Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you want to change the world, stop using gas, period. Electric power with wind powered generators and generators in the wheels. Solar panels on the roof and trunk. Retail price, 125k.
                        Ben
                        60DegreeV6.com
                        WOT-Tech.com

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                        • #13
                          I was happy with 18mpg on my 3500
                          SpudFiles
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                          Enjoy life online.

                          1996 3500GP Coupe, "Bright White".
                          3500 swap, 60degreeV6 1393 Cam, Ported Intakes, Comp Cams Valve Springs, 65mm TB, Custom Pushrods, S&S Headers, 97 PCM with DHP Powrtuner, 2.5" back to dual Hooker Aerochambers, SS Brake Lines, Addco swaybar, KYB's, Intrax Springs, STB's, etc!

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                          • #14
                            My car see's WOT all the time and I get 21mpg in town??? LOL
                            sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
                            1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
                            16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
                            Original L82 Longblock
                            with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
                            Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not me. Around town being moderate, I get 13mpg. On premium. On the highway, it'll pull around 30.
                              \"NASCAR is an integral part of my life. A part of me died when Dale Earnhardt died.\"

                              1997 Olds CS 4-door S/C - 183,527 miles
                              1999 Chevrolet Lumina 3100 - Wife took it at 158,340 miles
                              1989 Volvo 740GL Wagon 2.3 8v - 232,050 miles

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