Double Clutching and stuff

[DetroitsFinest]

In my old car (1989 Probe GT..2.2 l4 turbo 5spd) since first gear went by SO fast the only way to do it without hitting rev limiter was to go full throttle until about 5700rpms then go 3/4 throttle and shift. Then you could keep full throttle thru the rest of the run.. damn I miss that car, its no Camaro, but it sure as hell was FUN to drive. I surprised many fox body 5.slow mustangs with it (stock) and even a few newer GTPs

[RidgeRunner]

during city cruising half the time i never use my clutch to shift, both for up and downshifting, just match revs. only use it for 1st then get lazy and just shift by rev matching.

A friend of mine used to have an F-350 SUPER DUTY pickup with a 5-speed for his daily driver. He used to drive it like that. Of course, he only had one leg (thanks to cancer). It was something to see him drive that puppy.

Oh yeah, his summer car - a 1968 Corvette, LS7 454, 4-speed M21 Muncie.

I have a cousin with one leg... yet he drives a manual transmission vehicle just fine. Of course I'm sure it helps that he made the prosthesis himself, since that's what he does for a living.

[93LuminaZ34va]

I never double clutch my Camaro..... I just hold it to the floorboard and stab the clutch at about 5k, it revs to 5 1/2 and by that time i've popped the clutch back out..... Nice squeelage out the back all the way to 4th doing 87 mph AND I drove it 40,000 miles like that, no problems, no humming, nothing. It's all in knowing how to keep up with your stuff.

[BMC]

Heal and toe- good practice only when you become a good driver for autocrossing or road racing when you need the brakes and throttle at the same time in a controlled manner around a corner. I use it in my Austin Healey as well as my MGs, not in my 3.4L powered 5 speed S10... Ok, i do use it in the S10 as well, but only when cornering hard and no trailer on back.
Double clutching.. Ahh memories. OK, I'm only 28, but have had a bit of experience..
Semi-truck have no syncronizers and thus they need to skip the clutch all together or double clutch. With syncros in the gearbox, you normally do not take on this practice. with good syncs, they just get in the way of a double clutch..
Old cars, I mean pre WWII and previous that did not have syncronizers (and some pickups into the late 1950's) had VERY HEAVY flywheels that allowed the motor to decellerate slowly and thus it was easier to get those gears to line up, you had (have) more time. If you have ever looked into an aluminium flywheel, you will find that a normal unit weighs around 10 pounds, the one for your car weighs around, say 20... If the same engine was used with a non-sync gearbnox, you would have manufacturers building 50 pound flywheels to give better amount of spool down time and thus allowing easier timing for the gear change.... there were also, generally less gears with wide spacing giving this an ever greater timing/spacing issue....
One car i worked on, a 1913 Hudson straight six had like 400 pounds of Tq coming out of that motor, but you had to wait a long time between gear changes- about 3 seconds (I am guessing) compared to our split second changes nowadays. Generally all the older cars that i used to work on were that way, unless altered by someone in some fashion or another.

Cars 'aint what they used to be. The basics are all the same, but the specifics are what make modern cars, well, modern!
-BMC.

[Juglenaut]

I am not about to plop a 50 pound fly in my getrag.

I used to power shift my beretta without using clutch at all only in first.

[BMC]

Niether am i, but in order to give you time to shift between gears, the heavy flywheel allowed people to shift without grinding (missing the exact moment) by widening the amount of time possible at the correct, or near correct RPMs. Syncros are quite nice for that... Believe it or not, your syncs are working, even when your clutch is not depressed, but just barely as they have to syncronize the driveline instead of a few loosely rotating gears. My old Datsun 510 had a perfect gearbox for shifting w/o a clutch, but the old S10 was a bit less forgiving, though i did it alot anyways. Its funny how many people talk about shifting without the clutch and how good they are, just to see that they look like they have never driven a manual before. Makes me understand why the big corperations go to slushboxes!
When i am driving my S10 hard (no trailer connected), i let off the throttle a little bit. The Rev limiter keeps me just below the point of blowing things to pieces. Not a good practice if you dont have spares and spare greenbacks on hand for those soon to come replacements.

-BMC.

[Anonymous]

Without double clutching, how long should sycros last on a car with a 'good' driver? I'm just wondering how long a 5-speed in a j-body or w-body would last compared to say a 4T60. When I get a manual tranny I'd like to use synthetic fluid.. it there any special way of replacing it on a higher milege car? (I know with a high milege 4T60 the best way is to do a regular drain procedure a couple times after X amount of miles intervals.)

[BMC]

A nice and easy driver should get 250,000 miles between gearbox rebuilds. A thrasher could blow it up in 500 miles. The normal good driver that thrashes on his car, but not all the time should get 125,000 miles between rebuilds. Exactly the same as an automatic- but more people drive manuals harder and therefore break them more. I have watched many peoples driving habbits to come to this conclusion that some of those automatic owners will not understand, namely because they never truely learned how to drive a manual.

In 1938, Buick came out with the first real production automatic. After WWII, GM started selling them in alot of different vehicles for the market of the Veterens coming home that no longer had all four limbs- where there is a market, someone will fill it. Someday i will need an automatic too i suppose, but until i am in need....

BTW: I saw the comercial for GMs new little pickup, the convertable. They show it with a stick! Good Job GM! Now sell half of them or more that way and you will make me a believer again!

-BMC.

[RidgeRunner]

Without double clutching, how long should sycros last on a car with a 'good' driver? I'm just wondering how long a 5-speed in a j-body or w-body would last compared to say a 4T60. When I get a manual tranny I'd like to use synthetic fluid.. it there any special way of replacing it on a higher milege car? (I know with a high milege 4T60 the best way is to do a regular drain procedure a couple times after X amount of miles intervals.)

Synthetic? Hmm. I've always used GM Synchromesh in my Sunbird. BTW, it now has over 195k original miles. I had to change the HTOB at 80k miles, and the clutch (also replaced the HTOB again) at 160k.

BTW: I saw the comercial for GMs new little pickup, the convertable. They show it with a stick! Good Job GM! Now sell half of them or more that way and you will make me a believer again!

Chevrolet's site doesn't show it being available with a manual transmission. Sure you saw what you think you saw?

[BMC]

They showed the vehicle slamming into reverse as it climbs onto the transport truck... i sure hope a manual is the standard an the auto is an option...
-BMC.

[jmgtp]

I've always used GM Synchromesh in my Sunbird.

I only use GM Synchromesh as well. I tried Redline Synth. in my 284 and it shifted much worse. I drained and refilled with Synchromesh the next day and it was a lot better. My 282 I just topped off with Synchromesh since it was a little low when I bought the car, havent got around to a fluid change yet. I didnt notice any difference in cold trans performance between the redline and the synchromesh either. My 284 is a fussy little bitch until it warms up, which usually takes around 5 mins in the summer, but I could recall a few winter days when it would lock me out of 1st and sometimes 2nd gears for near 10 minutes. My 282 is a bit stiff on cold winter starts but seems to loosen up within a minute or two.

[RidgeRunner]

They showed the vehicle slamming into reverse as it climbs onto the transport truck... i sure hope a manual is the standard an the auto is an option...
-BMC.

I just watched it again... looks like he's pushing the button and pushing it forward into reverse... IE, automatic on the console.

[Cliff8928]

I've always used GM Synchromesh in my Sunbird.

I only use GM Synchromesh as well. I tried Redline Synth. in my 284 and it shifted much worse. I drained and refilled with Synchromesh the next day and it was a lot better. My 282 I just topped off with Synchromesh since it was a little low when I bought the car, havent got around to a fluid change yet. I didnt notice any difference in cold trans performance between the redline and the synchromesh either. My 284 is a fussy little bitch until it warms up, which usually takes around 5 mins in the summer, but I could recall a few winter days when it would lock me out of 1st and sometimes 2nd gears for near 10 minutes. My 282 is a bit stiff on cold winter starts but seems to loosen up within a minute or two.

Which Redline fluid did you use?


Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[Anonymous]

Synthetic? Hmm. I've always used GM Synchromesh in my Sunbird. BTW, it now has over 195k original miles. I had to change the HTOB at 80k miles, and the clutch (also replaced the HTOB again) at 160k.

Pardon my stupidness, but what does HTOB mean? Is synchromesh a (fully?) synthetic fluid? I really have no idea (thats why I'm asking now :P )

[dykz34]

HTOB = Hydraulic Throw-Out Bearing. Synchromesh, I believe is not synthetic. It's the GM tranny fluid.