96 Beretta Project

[3400-95-Modified]

That is one thing I have never done with this car... and I really want to this time around with this engine.

[carbon]

I noticed that there were no valve reliefs in your pistons... what lift and/or timing does it take for that to be come a problem?

Great work by the way. I'd love to go through this process if I ever get the time.

[3400-95-Modified]

Not sure honestly... I didn't experience any contact when test fitting everything so I'm hoping it will never hit. My old cam just touched the pistons on the exhaust and that was due to an extremely stretched timing chain, so I will inspect these pistons after some run time to see if they experience the same issue.. I don't expect them to seeing how the exhaust valve is actually closing 5* sooner than the old cam.

Old cam specs 278/289 adv 216/240 @.050 .517/.568 lift 108 ICL 112 LSA.
IVO is 31.0 ° BTDC ( - indicates ATDC)
IVC is 67.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 80.5 ° BBDC
EVC is 28.5 ° ATDC ( - indicates BTDC)
Overlap is 59.5 °

New cam specs 268/282 adv 218/230 @ .050 .570/.569 lift 109 ICL 113 LSA.
IVO is 25.0 ° BTDC ( - indicates ATDC)
IVC is 63.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 78.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 24.0 ° ATDC ( - indicates BTDC)
Overlap is 49 °

All specs used .006 tappet lift numbers.

[3400-95-Modified]

So now that it's running I found the Aeromotive FPR's don't hold cranking prime pressure... and that's written right in their FAQ that they design them for flow and steady pressure when running and you may need to wire in a switch to keep the pump running or something during cranking. SO checking my bin all I can find is "fuel pump prime time" and it's listed in seconds and has a value of 30... I hope that's a typo and is really milliseconds because it does NOT stay running for 30 seconds, 3 I would believe. I'll pull my current bin and change it to something like 300 or 400 and see if it actually stays running for longer. That would solve my issue.

It drives tho... Took it around the block with no hood or headlights last night... Seems to shift ok and when on stands I got it to shift all the way up to 4th gear so all seems well with the trans so far. I'll have to see how well it shifts under heavier load when I feel more comfortable with the car.

[mfuller]

Nice work.
Break 'er in easy....

[3400-95-Modified]

Well I will never recommend RevMax converters to anyone anymore... Even if they do send me back one that works. I bought this converter back in 2011 and it has been treating me well till this last year where I had issues with my diff failing again and spreading metal in the trans, this caused the valve body to stick and made the TCC slip on me. SO I pulled it and sent it in for cleaning/rebuild and did the rest of the trans myself, replaced the valve body and ensured all valves were stick free... First drive with the car the TCC wouldn't engage or felt like it wouldn't. I immediately disabled the TCC in the ECU so it wouldn't partially engage and slip the clutch. I then proceeded to remove the trans and swap valve bodies again to another one with 90k on it, I also tested and inspected both TCC solenoids, Regular and the PWM one. Put the whole thing back in and sure as shit the TCC felt exactly the same. According to the ECU when locked up it was slipping about 600-700 RPM... That's just garbage if you ask me and caused a lot of heat in my trans. I made an executive decision on Monday and did a converter swap for an old OE style FD9B converter, 2095 stall. Had it all done in 4.5 hrs and drove it to work the next day... BINGO works like a charm just as it should... Slip RPM registers between 0 and 10 now.

SO I think since I JUST had my converter rebuilt it would be fully covered under warranty shipping and all... NOPE! They are willing to inspect it and replace the clutch free of charge if the "find" anything wrong with it but I have to pay to ship it to them. Granted with my discounts that is only $17 and not worth fighting over right now... But we'll see how this "repair" and "inspection" goes because if they try to tell me there is nothing wrong with it and think they are going to charge me money for the inspection work... this is going to go south real quick.

Currently the car is running with the FD9B converter and I may keep it that way till after my trip to MS... I honestly don't want to swap in the converter they are sending back and HOPE it works right before I plan to go and then have it not and have to swap it again.

[Guest]

So you had a trans failure and are blaming the converter for also failing, even though that same junk that went through the valve body also went through the converter?

[3400-95-Modified]

No, If you read the whole post you would see they rebuilt the converter as well after that failure happened. I sent it to them for the exact reason you stated, in 2014 I originally thought the converter lockup was failing but when I removed the trans I found the real issue so I knew it had to be rebuilt along with the trans.

The converter was "brand new" when I installed it this year and the TCC clutch does not lock up or stay locked. I just paid $225 to have them cut/clean and install a brand new woven carbon clutch in Jan. They failed at rebuilding it correctly.

[Guest]

I did read the whole post, but to me it read that you had it rebuilt/installed it before you had trans issues, not after.

[3400-95-Modified]

SO I pulled it and sent it in for cleaning/rebuild and did the rest of the trans myself, replaced the valve body and ensured all valves were stick free... First drive with the car the TCC wouldn't engage or felt like it wouldn't.

I am confused on how this makes it sound like I did the converter before the trans rebuild... and not at the same time.

[3400-95-Modified]

I also want to add this that the return-less fuel setup just would not work on this car at all... Even with a long term prime setup. I'm actually starting to blame the whole configuration I have going on for the starting issues. I have reverted back to a through type rail setup with the regulator on the return line, Same regulator and whatnot. Pump feed line goes directly to the rear rail inlet and out the front to the regulator and then to the return line. I have the pump relay wired to come on with KOEO and run all the time, not on a timer. You can turn the key to the on position and let it sit there and you'll see the pressure gauge read 45PSI, go to start it and it's still a hard start. I had this same issue with the deadhead setup and I thought it was due to the fuel draining off and creating an air pocket in the rail. Seeing how it's a full flow through rail now I have no clue as to what is causing the hard starts. If I do key on and off a few times to make the pump cycle on then off a couple of times it starts way better. Not sure if that jog on and off is making air pockets move around easier or not. Seems like this will just be something I'll have to deal with using a regulator that doesn't hold pressure when the pumps off. I'm actually thinking of switching back to stock lines going to the rails and the rail mounted AFPR that I was running to see if it starts any better. If it does I may just work with that setup and T the feed line to run the nitrous and gauge and not tap the pressure port on the passenger side of the rail like I was.

[bandit.goose]

Things are getting close to a start up... Only about 5 parts that need to go on before I can start it. One of those parts are the axles... Without those I can't start it because there is no fluid in the trans.

Primed the motor and it runs about 60psi and will kick on the fuel pump when priming so everything is good there.

Also trying out a new deadhead routing for the fuel lines. It's a return less style rail and the return fuel that goes back to the tank only runs through the regulator and not under the hot intake. Hopefully that keeps the fuel temps down.

Having all this time had caused me to go very slow during assembly so I think everything is going to be 100% set when I start it for the first time.

I should know details on my axles today and hopefully they will be able to ship tomorrow at the latest so I can get them for the weekend. Or at least next week. Going to be in Jersey this weekend assembling a playground for my nephews.



And one thing I've noticed with this engine... it has a lot of compression or simply a good seal on the cylinders because damn is it tough to turn over with the plugs in it... very little air bleeds by the rings and whatever does it's slow!

Also all this time 3 things kept me from going to a full 3500... Thankfully TCE has the internal trigger now which I liked and I'm using, second was the AC mounting which ended up working out with what I did and wasn't that hard... And the third was the trans tail shaft bracket... if I had known it would have only taken 10 min with a de-burring tool and a Malibu Trans bracket would fit I would have done this a while ago.

MINT!

So when you are talking about the Malibu trans bracket being a (modified?) option, is this for automatics only? I've got a 96 z26 I'm in the process of 5 speed swapping, and will be looking to go full 3500 sometime early 2016. Stumped on how to do the getrag 282 trans bracket on 3500.

BTW I've been following this thread since the beginning and the knowledge I've incurred by you and others is priceless. Excellent work.

[Guest]

Manual bracket would require similar modifications, since it's the block that's changed, and the bracket needs to fit between the block and the trans jack shaft/jack shaft housing.

[3400-95-Modified]

The brackets I'm using tho are completely different than the original 3100 style. That mounted between the block and the bolts that hold the diff cover on, the new setup bolts to the block and to the end of the diff housing. Seeing how on a 282 shaft the bracket is sometimes integrated you may have more work ahead of you. The aluminum jack shaft may be easier to make something since that is just a bent aluminum bracket.

On a good note, revmax is willing to work with me and rebuild another core to get me a working converter. I need to supply the converter and pay shipping.

[3400-95-Modified]

Ok I owe a full update to this since my last post about them was very heated...

I sent the converter in and they cut it apart. Upon inspection he found nothing that indicated the clutch was slipping, so he told me to call him. Had a very lengthy conversation with him regarding the converter. After explaining how long it was running in slipping condition he then understood why there was no indication of wear or abuse. He didn't realize I had pulled it after 15 miles of driving realizing it was slipping. Also seeing how I have swapped in another converter and it works perfectly fine he is respecting my abilities and knowledge with how I explained everything and taking my word for it that it did not work. Upon that statement I asked him what do we do now. After some more discussion we came to the conclusion that I would scavenge my old stock type converters for a good core an send it down to them so they can build me a completely new converter. He doesn't want to re-use anything from the old one because even tho it all measures up correctly it still wasn't working. We settled on me paying for shipping for the converter to go there and come back and that's it.

SO in conclusion RevMax is working with me to sort out this issue but unfortunately we don't know what actually caused it leaving it an open ended book... I mean the new core could come back and work perfectly fine as my first converter from them did and we would have no explanation as to why the other one wasn't, OR it could come back and do exactly the same thing which would mean there is something they are doing or measuring that is not right for my trans causing it to not work. Also I do not think I will be swapping this replacement into the car before I travel for Bfest since I don't think it will be done till mid week, which is then still 3 days to come back so I won't have it till mid next week... Not up for a converter swap 5 days before driving to MS... Especially when the one that's in there is just fine for road trips. I just took the car to NJ over the weekend and it ran great.

In other updates, Found a major issue in my tune which I fixed regarding the Injector flow rate... I honestly should have checked that when I started but I couldn't remember what I was running last year, It ended up being the 32# injectors with a fuel pressure of 60-62PSI at WOT which actually changes them to 38# injectors. So my IFR in my bin was set to low resulting in me having to compensate for lack of fuel with the other tables. That gave my car a hard start as well as issues regaining idle when stopping. In addition to that I had a MAF sensor that was failing almost every start when cold so I swapped it for a second one I had floating around and that made a very big improvement, I also pulled the Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator for now since I wasn't sure what was causing my hard starts. Seeing how I have that sorted out now I may try to swap back to that and see if it starts better, or the same. I honestly like the aftermarket regulator better for consistent pressure as well as aux ports that I can use to tap the nitrous onto as well as the fuel pressure gauge.