96 Beretta Project

[3400-95-Modified]

I just put my bottom end together last night (crank only right now) and dropped in my cam bearings... damn that wasn't easy... Since I'm using a 350 install tool and the 350 bearings in a 3400 block, the install die is just ever-so slightly over-sized for the final bearing install diameter (the mains are a bit smaller than a 350 so when installed it compresses the bearing just a little bit more) and I forgot to sand it down before doing the first bearing, so getting the die back out and not causing any damage was a chore... after that I took some 500 grit to it just to bring down the little machine lines on the die and that helped get the rest in... I also had issues with the main support on the install tool, its held in place with a roll pin and that bent and broke after I got the last bearing in... Cheap Ebay cam bearing install tools FTL!!... But in the end with the cam back in I could see the cam journals were 100% supported by bearing now, and not just the middle's. And hopefully these bearings last longer than the sealed power ones did.

Today is piston cleaning at lunch time at work, and then I can hopefully get those in soon so I can then do the cam and lifters and chain, and then be done with the short block and wrap that up... Then I can concentrate on the porting which makes a MESS... That's why I want to get all the parts in the motor that need to stay clean. I did one head already and with all my parts covered I still had to spend a little extra time cleaning them... so Its time to just get them in and out of the mess.

I still have a trans to inspect/freshen after this...

I also just dropped 250 on MLS headgaskets and a crank scraper... MONEY PITS!!! lol

Pics later this week maybe.

Gotta go take down some trees tomorrow... Heating my garage isn't free, labor wise... But the wood is If I help my father-inlaw take down trees for friends he said I can have all the wood I want... The latest guy wanted about 4-5 cord of wood removed from his property... awesome!

[3400-95-Modified]

A few updates.

Cam bearings in... Hard to see but gives you a general idea that the whole journal is touched by the new bearings















And some pics of the short block back together.

[IsaacHayes]

1) How much shorter are the stock bearings to the SBC ones?
2) I see the SBC bearings come outside a bit of the block holes. Do the stock ones sit flush with the holes in the block (not sure of terminology here) or do they not come to the edges?
3) LIM must be removed to change cam correct?
4) When putting on the timing cover gasket, do you use the bare paper gasket, or coat it with RTV? I ask because on the 3100 I used RTV on both sides and it sprung a bad coolant leak when temps got to single digits.
5) What do you put to seal around the bolt threads that go into the timing cover that go into open coolant areas?

[3400-95-Modified]

1) I do not have two on me right now to verify that measurement... it looked like 1/8" wider when I did hand comparison before. The SBC ones yes stick out a tiny bit in some areas, the journal is not the same width the whole way around. Also stock bearings sit inside the bore some

2)

You can see here how they don't fully fill the journal.



3) Yes, because you need to remove the lifters to take the cam out, unless you flip the motor over, but then you can't see how far your putting the bearings in, and most likely the lifters will get in the way.

4)I used silicone around the coolant ports yes, and I haven't had a leak start yet.

[bob442]

your not worried about less clearance between the bearings and the journals on the cam? if the bearings are slightly larger that the stock (O.D) wouldnt that suggest there would be a change in the I.D of the bearing? i'm not fully sold on using the SBC bearings.

[bszopi]

Its not the diameter of the bearings that is different, its the width. If the diameter was different, they wouldn't fit in the block.

[3400-95-Modified]

It might have just been my tool that caused issues... Put it this way, a light rub with sand paper made the tool fit like a glove.

Raw data.
3400 cam bearing diameters.

Bearing OD spec range
1 - 2.009-2.011
2&3 - 1.999-2.001
4 - 2.009-2.011

STD Shaft Diameter
1.8677-1.8697

350 Cam bearings

Bearing OD spec range
1 - 2.019-2.021
2&5 - 2.009-2.011
3&4 - 1.999-2.001

STD Shaft Diameter
1.8682-1.8692


If you compare all those numbers the bearings installed are spot on with our spec range.

If your that worried use thinner oil.

Trust me its within spec, and there are a few others already doing this.

If you order the Clevite cam bearings they are supposedly the same material as the 350 ones. So if your that concerned about the size then just get the Clevite ones and not the sealed power ones and you may not have the issues I had with those.

Just be sure your getting the SH-1364S part number. The SH-1349S is the 350's

When I posted about the issue I had with my tool, a topic i read somewhere from TCE came to mind, that the 350's OD's are a tiny bit larger, which would make them fit a bit tighter in the bore, which could make a tool get stuck... Then again this could also be due to the cheapness of the tool I have... It may not be machined properly which gave me my slight sticking issue.. After going through and finding these numbers I see the only difference is the range of our shaft diameter is larger than that of the SBC... so ONLY if the cam you have is 1.8697 and the bearings are 1.8692 when installed would you have an issue, but then the cam just wouldn't fit... Odds of that are VERY slim.

Either way my cam installed just fine with a layer of assy lube on it too, so I think I'm all set.

[IsaacHayes]

Didn't the 60V6 power builders book or whatever suggest the SBC bearings too?

Did you put RTV just around the coolant port and not the whole gasket? On both sides of the gasket? Did you put some on the threads of the bolts too?

I suppose if one really wanted to, a powerful rare earth magnet on a string/wire to hold up each lifter with the pushrods removed could work to keep the LIM on, but not sure if you can remove the pushrods with the LIM in place though...

Good photo there, I see the block journal is wider than the stock bearing too. Damn that bearing is messed up. I'm going to replace the bearings in my motor (at least just the cam ones) now with the SBC ones. That is unless I find out they are not sealed power brand.

[3400-95-Modified]

I'm not sure about the power builders book since I got the info from here

I put RTV around the coolant port on both sides, and yes I put some on the threads, One engine I used Plumbers tape on the threads since they go right into the coolant port, they are not a blind hole, the are through holes into the water jacket.

If you have the metal LIMG then just remove the LIM... they are reusable. Much easier and safer to do it that way.

That above picture is the what happened to the bearing after 60k of a STOCK cam.. LOL That's not even one of the pics from pinky's motor

[IsaacHayes]

I have 3500 heads with 3500 OEM gaskets on it, so it's not metal. It *MIGHT* be fresh enough (only 5k) to re-use the plastic one, if it looks ok. I always check for water vapor in the oil cap so even if it does start leaking later I'll catch it and fix it with metal. For now I think I'll try to re-use the plastic OEM one. Yeah the sealed power bearings obviously are flawed and don't meet OEM strength... With the extra spring pressure and ramp rates from the cam the SBC bearings are a nice upgrade. Should last just as long as OEM bearings and cam I'd think with Clevite and more surface area to ride on.

[3400-95-Modified]

I'd love to see how just 3400 Clevite bearings do in this application alone... Unfortunately Rockauto doesn't list them for our application. I'm not sure why. I'm thinking those would respond just as Dave's did and just wear rather than pit and crater like the babbitt material does.

EDIT* found the Clevite's on Rockauto, They only list it as a 1980-03 3x00 bearing... not 05 where I have been searching. That's odd... Yet Clevite's own PDF lists all these applications to have the same bearings.

173 CID (2.8L) Chevrolet LPG V6 Cyl (1987-1989) 3.504in./89mm x 2.992in./76mm
173 CID (2.8L) Chevrolet Meth V6 Cyl (1987-1989) 3.504in./89mm x 2.992in./76mm
189 CID (3.1L) Chevrolet V6 Cyl (1988-2005) 3.504in./89mm x 3.307in./84mm
189 CID (3.1L) Chevrolet Turbocharged V6 Cyl (1989-1990) 3.504in./89mm x 3.307in./84mm
189 CID (3.1L) Chevrolet LPG V6 Cyl (1988-1993) 3.504in./89mm x 3.307in./84mm
189 CID (3.1L) Chevrolet Meth V6 Cyl (1988-1993) 3.504in./89mm x 3.307in./84mm
189 CID (3.1L) L64 Chevrolet Flex V6 Cyl (1993) 3.504in./89mm x 3.307in./84mm
207 CID (3.4L) L32 Chevrolet V6 Cyl (1993-1995) 3.622in./92mm x 3.307in./84mm
207 CID (3.4L) LA1 Chevrolet V6 Cyl (1996-2005) 3.622in./92mm x 3.307in./84mm

In case anyone cares I attached Clevite's main catalog

Our block is page 374 block #41 and the 350 is 388-389 block #73

[3400-95-Modified]

Well as of right now it looks like I'll be going back to the OEM GM LIM gaskets because the Felpro ones do not have the same opening as those do. I didn't look it it much when I swapped them over before, but now that I line it up and check it, there are many overlaps where the stock ones do not. Granted this is probably because I ported my setup to the stock type gaskets, but since I've done that I guess I've limited myself to using those.

I don't really have a problem with that since this is not my daily car, but I will definitely be keeping an eye on them.

[SappySE107]

The felpro gasket shouldn't stick into your port work unless you went too far.

[3400-95-Modified]

I gasket matched to stock gaskets and the felpro's are smaller... Don't know what to say about that unless you don't gasket match to the stock ones. It's been like that since I built the engine and the stockers fit perfect.

[SappySE107]

Felpro is not smaller anywhere. I can't take a good picture to show you the trace of the stocker on a head and then the felpro on the head, but there is no overlap.