Timing

[WB1]

Hi all. does anyone know where I can get the info and tools to reset the timing on a 95 Grand Prix GTP. I had a blown head gasket and have gotten all that part resurfaced and installed but I have read that the timing marks on the cam carriers are not to be trusted and that there are other ways to set to timing correctly. I have also read that your site was going to host a video on how to reset the timing. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Bill

[RednBlack]

http://60degreev6.com/discussion/kb.php?mode=cat&cat=5&sid=fca7b12ebdc31384e889f4ec63125873

[WB1]

Thanks that helps a TON . Now where do I get the cam flat tools that I need to make it all perfect? Or are there ways to do it without the 2 tools? Tanks Bill

[Husky]

You can make them fairly simply. There's instructions on the site, http://60degreev6.com/discussion/kb....e=article&k=16. I use those, and it's not too bad.

[WB1]

I found that one of the pictures on the link is not working. Rotate crank to desired rear bank timing using 15mm socket and wrench. 2nd picture shows the timing mark on the dampener. The 2nd picture does not show up. Also for some reason two of my timing marks dont line up. The mark on the intermediate sprocket will be where it is saposed to be but then the mark on the crank will be off almost 10 degress. Is this normal? Thanks Bill

[Husky]

Yeah, both of my marks are off. I use the best way I know of to time... I remove all plugs, then insert a long welding rod into the spark plug hole of the number one cylinder. I then rotate the engine until the rod is all the way up,(it takes a few tries to get it totally accurat, for me anyways). That's the best way I can think of to get it timed, because that way you're not relying on any marks. When the cylinder is at TDC, it's at TDC. I did that and noticed that both my marks were off.

[WB1]

IT LIVES Thanks for the help guys It started right up and runs GREAT. This has been a long project and I learned alot about my car Thanks for the help. The whole Thread that explains and shows with pictuers about the timing of the engine is AWSOME that should be in repair manuals.

[Husky]

That's what we're here for. Now go get some kills!

[WB1]

Thought I had it. I took it out and ran it for a short while and it ran great but when it go hot it ran like crap. The exhaust sounds like crap when it warms up and still seems like the timeing is off a hair. My guess is the esaust side is opening to early on one side so its back to the wrenching Can anyone point me in a direction to get a set of the wrenches to help break the gears loose off the cams. I made a set of the cam hold downs but am a little worried about using them to help break the bolts loose on the gears. I have a 95 GTP so acording to everthing I read it should be a bit easier then the 94 and earlier. Thanks Bill

[Husky]

94 is easy too. I think it's pre-1994. Anyways, I burn throught a set of cam tools everytime I break a gear loose. I bought them from a parts store, and I just cash in on the lifetime warranty. They break a new one out every time I get in there.

[WB1]

What part store and how much do they cost? Going to tear into it again Friday night

[SappySE107]

I dont know of any stores that sell the cam gear holder that you need. You don't want to use the cam flat tool to hold things in place, as it will strip the threads out of the carrier. You can try using vise grips but I have found that sometimes those bolts are stuck extremely tight. etools.com or something like that has the correct tool but its not cheap.

If it runs good until it gets hot, I doubt its your cam timing. Cam timing will make it run like crap all the time. So long as you have the one bank 180 degrees out like the walkthrough shows, and you used the crank timing mark lined up in the same position on the timing chain cover (the cover that holds the timing belt), id say you have a different problem. Run a compression test on all the cylinders. That will be easier than tearing it down not knowing for sure what the problem is. Does it idle worse when its warmed up?

[Husky]

Yeah, the one I run has prongs that stick into the gear to hold it.

[WB1]

Yep it idle's fine when cold but once its warmed up it idle's ruff. If it's not the timing where should I start looking? FYI this all started because I had a blown head gasket and am trying to get it wraped up. I did send the heads out to be checked.They were almost perfect new guides and valve seals cleand up. The main reason I am guessing the timing being a hair off is the exaust sounds bad once it warms up.

[SappySE107]

Id guess its a sensor or a vacuum leak. Would be best to put it on a scan tool and see whats its doing. A bad O2 will throw the fueling off once its warmed up enough to accept O2 input. Vacuum leak normally happens cold and goes away hot if its an intake gasket. I guess you replaced all the gaskets though since the heads were off. Could be the MAF sensor as well. Really hard to say but I don't think its timing.