[b]Remove Catalic Converter...Better Gas Milage?[/b]

[Juglenaut]

Depending on the computer you many or may not get any more mpg, but you will get a faster spool up which in a sense changes the bhp powerband. You may get a o2 fault code unless the fuel curve is modified. A dealership should have a computer that can reprogram stock calibration. Changing the retard base may or may not require a different fuel curve as well.

[dohcfiend]

just out of curiousity, have you modded your intake tubing or MAF sensor at all? or instead of having all that ecm work done, u might want to investigate something called a miniafc that is sold on a site called zzp.

what it does is alter your MAF signal to richen or lean your a/f mixture. it installs in 2 minutes and easy too use. but i would investigate the cause 1st.

[RollinonZ34]

Everything is stock , but i have added a New AC/Delco MAF or MAP Sensor...not sure what 1994 DOHC has, but it is New and from the Dealership just like every other component that i have replaced...except for the Gates Timing Belt. Also as for the intake, still has the original airbox but i did buy a K&N for it a while back, and just cleaned it a couple of weeks ago with the filter cleaning kit. I checked out the site you mentioned...zzp.. and looks like some good stuff. Where do you people find these sites? Anyway, that Magnaflow catalytic converter is looking pretty good to me right now and if i can ever find the time, might go with that, as my original Cat has over 170,000 mi. and i have suspected that it might not be letting the motor breath as good as it should. Even though i have looked under car when hot as someone suggested that they Glow red when bad, and it looked normal??? I still have not found the miniafc that you mentioned, but i did not check out site for too long as kids are holly terror today and taking up most of my time....but will go back and look for it.....Thanks, Paul

[SappySE107]

That cat won't always glow red when its bad, though when its restricting flow horribly there is a lot of heat buildup. The easiest way to see if the cat is messed up is to lightly tap it and see if it rattles. It should be solid.

If you are anywhere near warsaw indiana, I could hook up my scan tool and see what the computer is up to. How far off was the cam timing before you did the belt? Off cam timing can give better MPG than stock. 6/6 gave me 4 mpg over 13 degree retard, so its very possible your old timing was great for milage.

Ive heard good things about carsound cats. I haven't ran one though, just relaying what I have read more than a handful of times from the owners.

There is really no memcal relearn needed but if you want to try, just pull the ECM fuse, which should be on the driver side of the engine bay on the strut tower. I think its there on our 95 cutlass anyway.

[RollinonZ34]

Hey Ben,...I wish i was near you in Warsaw Indiana, as i would probably be @ your house every other weekend, but i live by New Orleans LA. It is funny and smart thinking to mention the Cam position before i reset and changed the Timing belt, as it was way off and now that i think of it, they did appear to be @ or near the retard points that you guys have come up with! I had previously had the Belt changed once before @ around 65,000 mi. by the Best Mechanic around here and wondered if he had set up the Timing retard, or if the belt had just stretched that much as it was about 100,000 mi. later when i changed it myself...Anyway, your thinking on this is very logical, but i do want to buy your Timing retard/advance tool soon and redo it all over again...If this is the problem, the money i will save on gas will quickly pay for the tool, even tho i look forward to the bump in Performance which is what the tool is really made for. But like i said, i am not a mechanic and may need a little info assistance to properly use the tool when i get it. as i am still confused like others i have read about with this tool...Do the Cams themselves get moved to different positions according to the degree marks on the Hold down tool and the Crank still be set on the stock line Mark, or Cams moved to different degree instead of straight up on one bank, and down on other bank and Crank be set 13Degree off like the pix you have up on pix walkthrough? One other problem with the tools i did buy (the cog holder bought from Snap-on does not fit on the Cog sprockets! It has square pegs sticking out to go into the Cog holes and my Cogs are rounded? i think the one i got was made for older motors, so i just did what you guys say Not to do and broke bolts loose with just the Cam hold down tool in place. worked ok but a little worried on the next time as i tightened those suckers down pretty good. Is the New tool with the Degree marks a little beefier to handle this if i need to do it like this again?.....Paul

[SappySE107]

The tool is less beefy so you will definetly hurt it if you use it to hold the cams in place while the bolts are removed Its aluminum and yes, i tried it with mine to see and put a nice little dent on there. I have used the kent moore holder with the rounded holes no problem, so perhaps theirs is just a bit too large? I would modify it to work if possible.

The timing tool works like this. Set the crank to TDC via the mark on the pulley with the mark on the casing. Then, set the cam with the degree marks on the tool. The tool marks are in crank degrees, which is half the cam degrees. 2 on the tool is 4. So the 6/6 timing is 3/3 on the tool. Since the marks go 2 4 6 8 10 12, you have to go half way for the odd numbers. This makes it really hard to end up with an odd number cam degree.

The 6 adv intake 6 retard exhaust gave me better gas milage than the 13 degree timing but about 4 mpg. I don't know how it compares to stock timing but you can mess around with it if you have the time and desire and probably come up with the best timing for gas milage.

[RollinonZ34]

This clears up my questions about the cam timing tool. Thanks for the info!!! I will get one soon, but just out of quriosity, is there any way to design the Cam Tool to be Beffier to be able to bust the Bot Bolts loose without the Kent-Moore holder? Just a thought as i know it would cost a lot more to make it this way. And that holder is hard to get to on the rear bank. Anyway, i will try to grind on my Sprocket holder to make it fit the rounded slots.....Paul

[SappySE107]

The weakest link are the threads. Not much you can do there unless you make a huge brace that goes somewhere else. Something that wedges between the cams would be the only other real option that I can think of but its not made.

[napatiger]

I left the stock hold down tool in once, and it stripped the threads on my heads, I highly discourage even having it on when you tighten/loosen the bolts. Use it just as a guide and then take it off and retest after.

on my original holder that I broke (it too is aluminum) but I ended up bolting a bar to it for leverage so that I wouldn't stress the belt.

I guess the GM mechanics will use vice-grips (not me)

[RollinonZ34]

Do you think something like this would work and be strong enough instead of the Kent-Moore hloder, as i even put it on the grinder to shave edges down and still would not work for me ...It just would not go into those round slots???

http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Cam-Holder-LIS38220.html

[napatiger]

at first glance, that looks like it will work. Do you have the engine in the car?

[SappySE107]

I have my doubts on that tool. Looks like the part that goes into the cam gear won't fit anywhere useful there. I have been using the kent moore tool on the 91-95 cam gears and it should fit even the 96 setup. I wonder why yours is made differently.

[series8217]

My machinist has one of those. He got it just after I did my timing though, so I didn't get to test it.
There is no reason the tool wont fit, I just wonder how sturdy it is. I did see it in person and it looks well built, but you never know about the material.

This would be the ideal tool if it will fit between our cam cogs:

http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Cam-Sprocket-and-Timing-Lock-B4500.html

Should hold good and tight and its hands free. It locks the cogs together by fitting in between and expanding into the teeth.
Here is a pic of it in use. You can see the cogs on this motor are close together like ours. The tool is smaller that it appears to be in the other pics.

http://207.97.196.162/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1673

[SappySE107]

141 bucks! le ouch! haha, i wont be buying one to test it out:P Nice find though, if it works it could be nice for someone that does the timing a lot.

[pwmin]

sorry if i missed something, since i am reading this for the first time, but since when does more hp necessarily mean less fuel mileage? parts that help in energy transfer can boost your power and get you better gas mileage at the same time. i got way better mileage with my L67 before i took off the smaller pulley, exhaust, and all that jazz before i sold it to my dad, and now he wants to put all that stuff back on for better mpg and power.