it's back, another crazy idea

[dohcfiend]

how about an aluminum crank damper? i am sure it would be much lighter but would it be a machining nightmare to get it to function correctly?

copying the design looks easy enough but i have not inspected it with any detail. it just jumped in my head like 2 seconds ago. what about putting that rubber piece in as well as that slotted thingy for the front crank sensor.

what does that slotted thingy attach to anyway?

thanx for the input.

[RednBlack]

#1 Problem is..Aluminum. Too soft to handle the torque. Keyway would strip. Have to have a sleeve imbedded.

#2 Problem is..Not enough rotating mass to provide balancing, without massive weights added.

#3 Problem is..cost to make would be extrorbitant! Design alone would be over 10 grand. Add cost of overmolding steel weights into aluminum...???? And the balancing would be a nightmare.

#4 Problem is...In order to make an aluminum balancer work, with imbedded sleeve, and no steel weights, it would have to be a lot larger diameter than steel, or cast iron. I'm guessing about 10"?

There is more...

But, I like the thought process.

[SappySE107]

RE: it

Are you talking about the 94+ setup? What does the stocker weigh?

[RacerX11]

RE: it

#1 Problem is..Aluminum. Too soft to handle the torque. Keyway would strip. Have to have a sleeve imbedded.

What torque are you talking about? The amount to drive the accessories? 6061T6 or similar aluminum is plenty strong. There are lots of aftermarket aluminum dampers for all kinds of engines with keyways that don't strip.

#2 Problem is..Not enough rotating mass to provide balancing, without massive weights added.

60degreeV6 engines are internally balanced, so there is no balancer. The damper is neutral balanced. No balance weights required.

#3 Problem is..cost to make would be extrorbitant! Design alone would be over 10 grand. Add cost of overmolding steel weights into aluminum...???? And the balancing would be a nightmare.

$10K to design? I don't think so. Also, see response to #2.

#4 Problem is...In order to make an aluminum balancer work, with imbedded sleeve, and no steel weights, it would have to be a lot larger diameter than steel, or cast iron. I'm guessing about 10"?

See response to #2.

I think you are confusing a balancer with a damper. I thought there was already a lightweight damper/underdrive pulley available for the DOHC?

Marty

[dohcfiend]

RE: it

ya, 94-95 setup. as far as weight not sure after i re-strip down that shortblock of mine i will have a weight. but on average aluminum is about 70% lighter than steel. but judging from the above post, it seems this one is heading for the toilet..lol.

your logic is unwavering rbc. i have 1 last futile attempt maybe. can a machinist do the weights on the crank itself and just do away with the damper altogether? and/or maybe just fab something just to put that little slotted thingy in and have the bolt holes for the crank pulley?

i heard the slotted crank sensor setup on the front really isn't crucial to the 94-95 setups, is that true ben?

[RednBlack]

I think you are confusing a balancer with a damper. I thought there was already a lightweight damper/underdrive pulley available for the DOHC?

Then find it.. UD pulley is one thing. Which I am considering getting rid of, in place of a steel UD pulley. Attach aluminum to your crank and see what happens.
And I am not confusing anything... Damper or balancer, what I said stands.

[dohcfiend]

Re: RE: it

#1 Problem is..Aluminum. Too soft to handle the torque. Keyway would strip. Have to have a sleeve imbedded.

What torque are you talking about? The amount to drive the accessories? 6061T6 or similar aluminum is plenty strong. There are lots of aftermarket aluminum dampers for all kinds of engines with keyways that don't strip.

#2 Problem is..Not enough rotating mass to provide balancing, without massive weights added.

60degreeV6 engines are internally balanced, so there is no balancer. The damper is neutral balanced. No balance weights required.

#3 Problem is..cost to make would be extrorbitant! Design alone would be over 10 grand. Add cost of overmolding steel weights into aluminum...???? And the balancing would be a nightmare.

$10K to design? I don't think so. Also, see response to #2.

#4 Problem is...In order to make an aluminum balancer work, with imbedded sleeve, and no steel weights, it would have to be a lot larger diameter than steel, or cast iron. I'm guessing about 10"?

See response to #2.

I think you are confusing a balancer with a damper. I thought there was already a lightweight damper/underdrive pulley available for the DOHC?

Marty

nah, just a pulley but there is a keyed damper combo for the 3100's i think. perhaps an adaptation and it is already made too. hmmmmm.

[SappySE107]

RE: Re: RE: it

Im going to go with the slots being important to SFI operation. The computer cna probably work without it, but why bother with doing this if you aren't going to keep the slots. Honestly, i dont see a point in it other than a little bit of weight. We have an UD pulley option (why go steel on this RBC?), which cuts down some weight already. Getting that rubber molding in there isn't going to be cheap either.

[Kevwood]

UD pulley is one thing. Which I am considering getting rid of, in place of a steel UD pulley. Attach aluminum to your crank and see what happens.

Why are you considering getting rid of your al. u/d pulley in favor of steel?

[RacerX11]

Aluminum is so soft, it will melt right off the end of the crankshaft. I don't know why anyone would use it.

[RednBlack]

Re: RE: Re: RE: it

(why go steel on this RBC?),

Because, aluminum wears, it is soft.

I checked mine with an indicator and found about .010 taper. That is why my belt runs off. (Previous post) I replaced with my original and it slipped right back in place.
I want a UD made of steel.

[dohcfiend]

ok im flushing it after i sat down and thought about it. it was just something that popped in my head all of a sudden and needed a little guidance. thanx peeps.

[RednBlack]

Maybe I got a cheap one? Pulleys are OK. Attach it to a crank, nah. Gimme steel. Same difference. Less mass.

Mine is made from billet aluminum. Still lost .005/side/to the outside in wear.

It was fine when I bought it.

Hey, this is just my opinion. I have only dealt with Aluminum for 20 years.

[Guest]

Re: RE: it

#1 Problem is..Aluminum. Too soft to handle the torque. Keyway would strip. Have to have a sleeve imbedded.

What torque are you talking about? The amount to drive the accessories? 6061T6 or similar aluminum is plenty strong. There are lots of aftermarket aluminum dampers for all kinds of engines with keyways that don't strip.

#2 Problem is..Not enough rotating mass to provide balancing, without massive weights added.

60degreeV6 engines are internally balanced, so there is no balancer. The damper is neutral balanced. No balance weights required.

#3 Problem is..cost to make would be extrorbitant! Design alone would be over 10 grand. Add cost of overmolding steel weights into aluminum...???? And the balancing would be a nightmare.

$10K to design? I don't think so. Also, see response to #2.

#4 Problem is...In order to make an aluminum balancer work, with imbedded sleeve, and no steel weights, it would have to be a lot larger diameter than steel, or cast iron. I'm guessing about 10"?

See response to #2.

I think you are confusing a balancer with a damper. I thought there was already a lightweight damper/underdrive pulley available for the DOHC?

Marty

I agree with Marty......

There are MANY aluminium UD Pulleys/balancers etc, I haven't heard of one case where the keyway stripped. I also know of MANY aluminium pulleys that have never worn, or been a problem.

Please do some real research before jumping to conclusions.

[Lyle's GTP]

RE: Re: RE: it

I guess it will depend on how dirty the environment is. Alumminum is soft but it's not softer than rubber. So naturaly its not the rubber wearing the aluminum. Its abrasives getting caught in there between the belt and pulley, ie. dust, etc.

Lyle