Big news, Possible 91-95 DOHC headers for production

[Guest]

Bring out the true potential of your 96-97 3.4 DOHC with these custom mandrel-bent headers. The headers are made from 14 gauge mild steel and feature primaries matched to the factory oval exhaust ports, v-band clamps (a.k.a. aircraft exhaust clamps), 3-1 collectors, and laser-cut flanges. You can expect gains up to 20 hp or more depending on your current mods.

Ok, not to add to the flaming, but based on this alone, I would not buy from this company. The design overall isn't terrible, BUT....

If that picture is the same header it does NOT match the description.

There are NO V-bands, there are no Collectors, just tubes run into other tubes. Now I'm not saying that how they are made in the picture is bad, because it's fine. My concern is the flagrant disregard, for the customer, thinking they are stupid. To have a description that obviously does NOT match the picture show lack of respect.

I will NOT buy from this company based soley on that.

[JJ77]

I think those where the prototype headers that he made for his car


I think....

[bszopi]

On a side note, they are also in the process of designing headers for 3100/3400s for 91-98 Grand Ams.... Sadly, the Grand Ams came with 3.3L 90* V6s between 91-93.

Oh, and I wouldn't trust any prices that are quoted there. Initially, the 3x00 cams were going to be $300, then they were $350 when they first came out, and now they are $380. 21% increasr from the "expected costs". So... That would put the uncoated headers at ~$630, with the coated ones being ~$825. Then there is the installation costs...

[RednBlack]

I like the pipes being mandrel bent instead of tubes of different shapes welded together. I don't like the way that the front comes in behind the rear. That is a backup on it's own. I also don't like the "no collector", another restriction. Also the unequal length is like having no headers at all. I mean, that is the point of headers anyway.

I really hate to see headers going into a single pipe. I know everyone says duals on a V6 sounds like ass, but sound is not the point here. It is performance. Get the air in fast, and have an escape route of the same or higher velocity.

Take a 350 Chevy...Anyone can go buy a set of headers, install them, and get performance gains. But to truly get the best from a set, they need to be tuned to the engines modifications. I realize that we can't do this without a fully equipped shop and the time. We can't even get a good set of generics yet.

Would I buy Milzy's headers? Not yet. However, if he keeps going in the direction he is, maybe in the future. In the meantime, I will complete the modifications on the car, so when that time comes, maybe tuned headers will be an option...

Because, from the progress I have seen on this, and some other sites, our headers are not too far in the future. And I will buy from whoever gets it right first, and at the right price.

And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[Scott205]

Well, i think we should be pretty thankful that someone is atleast making something better than the inept ones Chevy decided to build for this engine. I would love to find a set of well made headers for the 91-95 or the 96-97. But these are a massive improvement from stock. Perhaps we can give some suggestions for a better version.

As for the price increases.. well, that is what happens when you design something new. I think the headers will come in exactly at that price. He has no competition except a few individuals who are making only one for themselves, and that is what the 96-97 headers run.

Lets really not try to make personal attacks, lets point out flaws that we might think are worth noticing. Or soon we may find that no one is making any extras for our aging cars. And good suggestions tend to eventually find there way into the good of parts.

Anyone out there actually have a really good set of headers they have built for either model? I am thinking you could make some good money if you put them in the store.

Scott

[z34_nut]

I too understand the debate about the lack of collectors, how-ever these are going into development. We can still make suggestions based on input, and other valuable information gathered from this site. The first four car to get these headers are going to work with him, give him important information to make them beter for production (if there is any improvment.). That picture is a concept, not the actual product.

As I said, as these enter production, expect many improvments over the set that is displayed. Mandrel Bent is definatly a plus, equal length takes away from.

There will be many other events in which we will try and make these one of the best sets out there. All we are trying to do is provide the early DOHC owners a chance to have produced headers. At least there is effort involved here. He has people working with him that will help insure a good following.

When I first made this post I did expect some backlash, mostly because thsi site is really good for it. But this is also good, because out of soem of the arguing there is truth, and valuable information.

When these headers are done, and installed, we will be able to give you accurate power gains. Once the car has these headers installed, then I will be able to give you fresh at the wheel hp gains/loses. We shall see.

[SappySE107]

What, I need to spell it out for him 4 times? No thanks, I have been ignored by him enough.

[Guest]

No where on the site or the page for the headers did it mention that the picture was of prototype headers.
Besides, what good are prototype headers if they are not VERY close or exactly like how the production headers will be? That's right not very.

I'm seeing it again in this thread, WAY TOO much emphasis on "equal length headers", god, how I wish people would learn that equal length is not an absolute nessesity, it's nice, yes, but need no, sometimes not even desired. A lot of "un-equal length headers" wil produce much more bottom end torque while having little reduction in top end HP. The anti-reversion is always high with a tube primary, and as long as the convergence of the primaries is somewhat close to being collector like (acute angles), it will help scavange better than a manifold.
Also realize that equal length headers aregenerall tuned for a very narrow RPM range, which may or may not work with other modifications you may or may not have.

[butchville]

excellent point raven, just get rit of the dang restrictive exhaust, heck i need torque, it'll flow once its got go.

[RednBlack]

excellent point raven, just get rit of the dang restrictive exhaust, heck i need torque, it'll flow once its got go.

DOHC exhaust manifold is one of the least restrictive manifolds I have seen. It also works well with the O2 sensor and flows nice into the Y pipe. Those "Protos" can't even come close. We have some LQ1s doing 14s with the stock manifold. I need numbers. And again, headers with single exhaust just plain sux. No point in spending X dollars for something that we can do stock.

Want some power? Port & smooth your stock manifolds. Run mandrel bent down pipe, Hi-Flow cat, and 2.5 mandrel bent out pipes. And mufflers of your choice. I choose Borla.

Everyone freaks out when someone says "I have headers." (Aarons' crowd) But, don't you think, that even with the amount of 60deg owners there are, if practical headers were possible? I'm sure any of the major manufacturers would have made them. Their problem is the same as ours. Can't fit, can't make generics, can't make a profit.

I am talking about street cars here, not customs.

And again...That's all I have to say about that.

[z34_nut]

I'm sure any of the major manufacturers would have made them. Their problem is the same as ours. Can't fit, can't make generics, can't make a profit.

There is no market by manufactures for a CAI for crying out load, so of course there are no headers in development. There was never any aftermakret for LQ1's for no real reason. Now that the new generation of hot rods is on the road, and the market is the biggest it has ever been, now is the chance for LQ1's aftermarket to come to life.

This is the problem. Every-one says it can't be done, but not enough people have tryed it, and untill that happens, then there is no reason to say its impossable.

[your_I.D.]

Tubular manifolds would best describe them. While better then most cast manifolds. It's an effort in the right direction of headers.

[RednBlack]

There is no market by manufactures for a CAI for crying out load, so of course there are no headers in development. There was never any aftermakret for LQ1's for no real reason. Now that the new generation of hot rods is on the road, and the market is the biggest it has ever been, now is the chance for LQ1's aftermarket to come to life.

This is the problem. Every-one says it can't be done, but not enough people have tryed it, and untill that happens, then there is no reason to say its impossable.

Thank-You. You just reiterated everything I said. I am not argueing the fact that Milzy is making progress. I have nothing bad to say. I am stating a fact that his "Headers", do not qualify as Headers.

And not once did I say"Impossible". Cuz it's been done, although crappy...Aarons' "Headers", do qualify as Headers.

Now, you give me a set of Headers, that I can bolt-on, without any more hassle than changing my alternator,..then I'm in, and I think most of the LQ1/Auto owners on this site will agree.

This subject has been beaten to death on this site.

I forgot something...Tranny fluid is very volitile when heated to Header temps. No way will I have them under my tranny pan. Turbo-Hydramatic, 4spd, 60degree, Electronic,... runs hot enough.

BTW, there is a manufacturer of CAI. http://www.powerflowracing.com/3modular.html Just got to be smart enough to put it together.

[95whiteprix]

Personally I think that any automotive performance company who doesn't make parts for the DOHC is just a bunch of dipshits.

My 95 Prix keeps up with my brother's 2000 jetta vr6 5spd without problems and it is stock. That is pretty damn good if you ask me, considering his car is about 600 pounds lighter with 20 less horsepower and my car has a worthless 4t60-e.

The 3.4 has extreme potential, it's just the factthat nobody has the balls to make parts for it.

I emailed pace setter today and asked them if we had a certain number of people to order headers for 91 to 95 3.4's and someone could lend them the donor car if they could make us a set of god forsaken headers.

I figured since they make the widest variety of headers (as far as applications go) they would be the ones to build a quality set of headers for a half decent price.

It just pisses me off that if you don't have some riced upcivic or eclipse you can't buy anything for car.

Miltzy is going in the right direction, he just doesn't have the knowledge that the big name header manufacturers do.

But until some one does get it all figured out we are all screwed because a good quality built set of headers just don't exist.

[Guest]

Curious: What makes a header a header?

The reason very few people make aftermarket parts has nothing to do with performance potential, but has everything to do with market share. There are very few cars left with the 3.4 DOHC, out of the few hundred thousand that were made, realize that probably about half are now no longer on teh road, due to accident, owner fed up with or act of nature that destroyed the cars. Now take that number and take about 10% (and that's being generous) that will want to modify thier 3.4s. Then take that 10% and cut it up fartherand realize that about 2% of that 10% will want headers (as an example), that brings the total numbe of headers sold to like 4 sets, ok so we know there would be more than 4 sets sold, but I'm giving an extreme example here to illistrate what happens. So is it worth it for the company, who ever it is, to spend thousands on R&D, and prototyping, to maybe break even? Nope, I know I wouldn't do it.
Yes it will cost thousands, because we all know that almost everyone on this forum will want a dyno sheet that will be picked apart before buying a set and not be enough of a gain, so less people will buy sets, etc, then the wages of the people doing the R&D, materials, etc.

Stop whining about Civics and thier aftermarket, and start building you own parts, if you really want something like this so bad.