Mufflers

[Galen]

Your exhaust doesn't care the size of the engine...it is all hp based on size of exhaust. Do any of you even know what you have a DOHC for? What is its purpose? Based on the ASS-U-MEptions of many of you, you think a stock 350 chevy should use the same exhaust as a motor spun up to 9,000 RPM on a steady basis.

As for what GM put behind the engine, are you actually stupid enough to think GM put the optimal exhaust behind the engine? Why go headers? Why port the head? Why go to another intake? Why change cam timing? Yea...you have a good point there!

As for hp I expect out of our engines...I expect higher than the 200 stock hp...seems you are aiming to just keep up with it. Also, not everyone pays for things like porting, exhaust, intake modifications, ect...some of us do our own work. If you are going to pay for a job to be done...why not get the most from your money? When in doubt, aim for a higher hp than you may have now so down the road you can grow into it.

Damn...it is fun to piss the natives off! Ya'll are gonna make me fab up a 3 inch exhaust on mine just to show you it won't be too big...lol! Then again, I really want to blow on this thing, but feel the trans will be too much of a problem.

Galen

Hey Platinum, I thought you wanted to SC your car. If you are serious about it, you better think of something bigger than 2.5...but then agian you may just have been full of crap on that thread.

[blk92z34getrag]

You're not making friends.

Oh, and go ahead and run a 3" exhaust system. Prove us wrong. Maybe you will get high-end gains. But your car will be less streetable than any LQ1 with a 2.5" exhaust. Also, you have an automatic, which puts you at even more of a disadvantage. These are daily drivers for most of us.

If you want to put us in our places, I want to see you with a well-tuned turbocharged LQ1 in a W-body. Then some of us will respect you. You're just running your mouth about "your" expectations and "your" plans. These are not necessarily our expectations or plans. So shut the fuck up about your 3" exhaust, most of us do not plan to boost our engines.

I recommend you fucking change your attitude, no one wants an asshole on the 60v6 forums. Maybe Platinum doesn't really plan to SC his engine, but at least he spurred discussion, and ideas were thrown around in case someone else has the initiative to embark on such a project.

[Galen]

ROFLMAO again...I get this from someone who has never run a larger exhaust...except on his dad's minivan! If you have never run anything, how do you know it is wrong? Even the website YOU posted lists 3 inch as optimal for the 250-300 hp range that I believe everyone on here strives to obtain. We are only talking about what, 40 hp over stock?

Bubba, cut the exhaust off. If at the end of the cutting you like the power level, then make an exhaust that will mimick the amount of backpressure your car has with no exhaust. Heck, if you still have any bottem end left, which by popular opinion you won't, then you may also look into a set of headers that by their estimation would only hurt you even worse. Just don't let people who have only built a car on the internet be the deciding factor in what you buy.

Am I an asshole...maybe. I definitely can be when people give advice over the internet without any knowledge about what they are talking about. The way I look at it is, I port a head to improve flow. I buy or build a header to improve flow and to scavange the exhaust gases from the cylinder. No where in this equation does increasing backpressure to make more torque make any sense. Hell, a cat is going to create all the backpressure you could ever want, and then some.

Take your head out of your ass. If you disagree with something, show proof. What have you built in the real world, not your little mind? Have you ever built a vehicle with a larger exhaust, or are you just regurgitating what others have said...most probably without any experimentation. I can list what I have built...'79 TA, Pont 400, first car, 12.35 quarter mile with 3 inch duel exhaust, '78 LeMans, Pont 455, 11.80 quarter mile with 3 inch duel exhuast, and now my Merkur XR4Ti, 141ci turbo, 14.50 at 98mph not being able to shift due to clutch linkage, 3 inch single exhuast. It will have a 12 sec time slip early next year. I don't build cars on the internet and I don't pussy around with poeple who do. I hurt your feelins...I am sooooooo sorry...cry me a river.

Galen

Oh yea, read the sig and you will see what my plans for this car are. I have higher priorities than to replace a crappy auto every thousand miles...I will stick with my rwd platforms.

[SappySE107]

Im gonna cry you a river off this site if you don't lose the attitude. Why don't you dyno your car before and after with a 2.5" mandrel bent setup and then 3". I would be interested in seeing the results. However I am pretty sure telling someone to just go larger so they can "grow into it" is poor advise. If you are going to do a lot more engine work later on, I would suggest just doing that first and then size the exhaust you need. Going 3" and a relatively stock motor is going to do no good.

I suggest you follow your priorities and stop being a prick on this message board.

[Galen]

Well sappy...I am a sucker for a good challange. Here is the deal...I will weld up a 3 inch exhaust of my choosing, donate all welding gas and wire and G-tech it before and after a 2.5 - 3 inch exhaust swap. All you have to do is come up with the 2.5 inch exhaust. I figure we are talking about 3 U bends, 1 6 foot stalk and 2 mufflers of your choice. When you ship them, I will weld the systems up and give you results...hell, I may even hit the local track for this one! Just give me until mid Dec...I graduate and have a 6 month lag before dental school starts.

Ball is in your court sappy....money talks and bullshit walks...what ya gonna do? My bet is that the 3 inch will have a slight edge on top end and no difference on bottom. Hell, I would even be willing to put a C note wager on the outcome, but that would be foolish on your part.

Galen

Oh yea, this is on a bone stock 95 GTP auto with just a drop in K&N, any modifications would only amplify the 3 inch advantage.

[blk92z34getrag]

Why are you talking about engines that are almost twice the size of an LQ1? You can't even begin to compare a highly modified 350 to an LQ1 that anyone would want to be streetable. An LQ1 does NOT have the low-end beans that a 350 or what-the-fuck-ever you've built has. Okay so 455ci needs 3", that's understandable. Our cars are 207ci with little hope of reaching over 300hp because of lack of aftermarket.

Why don't YOU stop talking and prove us wrong.

[PlatinumZ34]

Just thought i'd throw this out there:

Q. Is a bigger pipe and muffler system better?

A. No, there has to be a balanced design to enhance the maximum engine output, exhaust gas velocity, and sound. If the diameter of the tubing is too large, the exhaust gas velocity will be reduced and rob the exhaust of thermal efficiency.

Thats from Borla's FAQ. What do 60degreeV6 guys know, your right, so if you don't believe us, you can go ask the guys over at stangnet, (www.stangnet.com). They have forums for engines ranging from 2.3, 2.3 turbo, 3.8, 4.6, 5.0, 6.5, 7.0 ETC. Even the 5.0 guys agree 3" is too big, and they use 2.25 to 2.5 inch. The 2.3 turbos have a couple in the midst using 3", but they're also running over 20PSI and 9-11 second 1/4 mile times. And if they're also wrong, you can email magnaflow or flowmaster.

And just for good measure:

This particular system we installed (MAC-TK7995) will fit '79-'95 V8 Mustangs (exc. 87-93 GT). This system is 2.5" mandrel-bent throughout and is now coated in MAC's new DuraBlack high temperature coating. Polished Stainless Steel tips also replace the once chrome pieces in the system and they are fully adjustable. These tips also measure 3" in diameter (late model Mustang systems will feature 3.5" polished stainless steel tips).

Hmm, thats weird... a 302CI engine, 5.0liters... heavily modified (220hp stock, with TONNES of aftermarket, this stang probably in the 300hp range)...
But no your right, a 207CI engine, 3.4liters, with no aftermarket, and 210hp stock likely in the 220-250hp range (if your lucky) would definately produce more exhaust and require larger exhaust piping.


Owning a Merkur, i assumed you would know these facts on the 2.3 turbo...

[bubba81]

Glad to see somebody sticking up for us DOHC guys. The 3 inch piping is more for the bigger engines like diesal for example, they use anything from 3 to 5 inch exhaust tubing but they're eninge are putting out twice the power. 2.25 inch is what I am going with all the way back single pipe single muffler. Magnaflow turbo or something of that sort.

[Galen]

The 2.3 turbos have a couple in the midst using 3", but they're also running over 20PSI and 9-11 second 1/4 mile times.

Platnum, I don't know where you got your info from, but it is obvious that you know about as much about a 2.3 Ford as you do about a 3.4 DOHC. If you want to refer to a Ford webboard, please pick one that knows their ass from a hole in the wall...go to www.turboford.org. My screen name over there is the same as it is here...so I am easy to find. Go ahead and ask around to see how few people actually run 3 inch exhausts...or bigger. Hell, it is in the FAQ as either the first or second mod you should do to a turboford.

As far as your quoting 1/4 times, the only turboford that I can name right off the top of my head in single digits running an exhaust would Jon Del Blair's 9 sec SVO. He is running a 4 inch exhaust and pushing over 700 rwhp...without any spray. Here is his website for you to see his SVO. http://hometown.aol.com/fourced/index.html
Then, there is Randy's 10 sec RX7 http://www.eville140.com/, not sure if he is just running 3 inch or not.

It absolutely amazes me the absolute lack of appreciation for the gifts you were given by GM. On the Lima engine, we would give our left nuts for a DOHC head. Some of us are even adapting a DOHC head from a Volvo to fit on our 2.3 Ford(I have one in my shed). The power potential is amazing...one report of over 960 hp in an 8 sec full bodied Volvo. There is a thread right now trying to get support for an aftermarket DOHC head and it will probably come in at $4000 or more. Yet, ya'll are afraid to do anything to enhance any of the power the engine is clearly capable of. I guess most of ya'll are content to be outrun by your little brother, the Quad 4 (that puts out 220 hp stock).

Bubba, glad to see you made an informed choice. In life you take all the information in and process it...your decision is your own. I would at least make sure you aren't going to a smaller diameter than stock...but am sure you have already done the math!

Sappy, the offer still stands...just let me know when you wanna do this thing.

Galen

Oh yea, shameless plug...in all my searching, I have yet to find a more informative site on the web than www.turboford.org. Ya'll ought to troll around over there...you may accidentally learn a few things.

[Lyle's GTP]

Ummm.....the Quad 4 never did 220HP stock. Maybe in a prototype. But the most I've heard of was 190HP in an 1992 Olds Achieva SCX w/ W41 Cams. The Chev Beretta GTZ got 180HP. The 2.4 Cavi's got 150HP. But the bitch can't hold a head gasket to save it's life so they decreased it's output until it's demise in 2000. RSM has a supercharger for it that puts it up to 250HP (probably @ the flywheel). But that's all I've seen so far.

I won't be rolling over for no Quad 4. I've already beat several already and haven't lost yet.

However, I have ended my street racing career after joining this forum. So since I've smartened up, I will have to take it to the track and see.

Lyle

[Galen]

Ummm.....the Quad 4 never did 220HP stock

Lyle, you are correct. I was going off memory...which at my age is not in the best of shapes. The only time I have even looked into them was when a friend wanted to throw an old turbo on one he was given to make some street racing $$$$$. We ended up deciding that the head gasket issues made the cheap swap not worth our time.

Galen

[RednBlack]

Hey Bubba! Back to your original subject..I have a 94 Cutlass DOHC. I run Flowmaster Hi-Flo Cat with 2.5 Stainless Borla Cat Backs. Sounds real mellow at idle, (like the old Thrush mufflers), and Bitchin' at WOT. There is no way to get a 6 to sound like an 8, but, this is close. Wish I had a sound clip. And the Borlas get better with age. They ain't cheap though. I got mine free in a deal with Stantmann.

[blk92z34getrag]

I think my exhaust setup would sound better if I got it for free too. I like that clip of the Monte Carlo with the twister (I think?) mufflers. Best LQ1 I've ever heard.

[PlatinumZ34]

If anyone has a soundclip of a 3.4TDC with the full Borla exhaust system, or Borla's in general, let me know, im really interested in hearing that. Or one with the F355 Muffler... And yes i agree, that Monte with the twister sounds amazing, and very loud... lol... I have that clip, i believe, if anyone would like it as well.

Im not sure what everyone else is wanting their Z to sound like, but i really don't think the best answer is a fake V8 thats extremely loud. I just dont think it suits the car, or W bodies in general. I also think straight pipe style tips just look bad. Personally, I think the 4 round/oval tips look best, and the best sound for this car is stock (but louder without rasp ) or a Ferrari sound... Lets make it sound like what it is, a Tuned V6, not a 455 V8. Of course, function comes before form, but in my experiance, the best sounding exhaust is often the exhaust with the greater performance.

[bubba81]

me too