Well I have decided to do it

[Anonymous]

I will not. I actually changed the design a little, and now my fuel rail will run in a different way. I should have everything I need by the end of this month, and will begin fabrication of the manifold then.

I might plan on selling this setup as well, depending on how much it costs me. Expect the price to be steep though, it is over $1100 for the throttle bodies alone, and that doesn't include everything else(horns, vacuum setup, fuel rails, cables, etc)

[Gemmer]

Will you even be able to drive that around? Will you be able to rev high enough to hit the power curve long enough to do anything in the 1/4?

Should be VERY interesting to see if you get it done!!!

[RednBlack]

I am going to wait.

[Anonymous]

Well the smallest TB they have is 40cm, and that is the one I ordered. This SHOULD produce a power curve of 4000 to unlimited. Basically, as he put it, however far your fuel, valves, and cams can go these will flow.

As for you RednBlackGutless, you just wait and see like you did with my headers

[SappySE107]

He has seen your headers? Thats funny, cause no one else has.

[Rhedalert]

He has seen your headers? Thats funny, cause no one else has.

[blutrotdrache]

Hey, Aaron, how are you setting up the airfilter system on this? You going to put small airfilters on each horn, or are you planning to pipe it in from somewhere, perhaps from a filtered hoodscoop ramming air directly into the horns?

[RacerX11]

40cm? I think you mean 40mm. Is this 40mm at the throttle plate, or the throat opening to the TB? This sounds a little on the small side. I have a set of 40mm Honda motorcycle TB's, and they are good for about 150HP on a 4 cylinder, which would be ~225HP for six of them. You should be putting out this much power already with the headers. I would think something along the lines of 42-45mm might be a better size, maybe even larger. Who did you order them from? What size did they reccomend?

You might want to consider motorcycle TB's for a cheaper alternative. You can get the Honda TB's in 38mm (600 F4i), 40mm (600RR, 929RR), 42mm (954RR), and 44mm (1000RR). I picked up two different sets on Ebay (38 and 40) for under $60 each. The larger 42 and 44mm ones are harder to come by, but the 38's and 40's are readily available used. You would need to rig up some sort of linkage to use them properly, but it would be much cheaper than paying the $1100 for off-the-shelf setups.

Marty

[Anonymous]

Hey, Aaron, how are you setting up the airfilter system on this? You going to put small airfilters on each horn, or are you planning to pipe it in from somewhere, perhaps from a filtered hoodscoop ramming air directly into the horns?

They sell a K&N filter that snaps on top of the horns. I would like to do a ram air thing, but that will be in the future. For now I am just going to run the filter on top, even if it is warm air.

40cm? I think you mean 40mm. Is this 40mm at the throttle plate, or the throat opening to the TB? This sounds a little on the small side. I have a set of 40mm Honda motorcycle TB's, and they are good for about 150HP on a 4 cylinder, which would be ~225HP for six of them. You should be putting out this much power already with the headers. I would think something along the lines of 42-45mm might be a better size, maybe even larger. Who did you order them from? What size did they reccomend?

Yah 40mm. It isn't cheap, but it comes with a lot that I will need. Fuel rails, throttle linkage, the air horns, etc. This is all small stuff that I'd rather have and not have to make. I talked to the guy, but he is a dumbass. I asked him what CFM each flowed, and he said they hadn't done flowcharts on any of them. The MILD small block chevys, just liek a 350hp 350cid, are using 40s so I figure it was about right. And a F4i has a 16000 redline, which is more than double that of mine. So they need that ultra high rpm flow. I am only looking to get from 4-7, maybe 8 later on. I really do not know what sizes to use, there are too many variables. I really need flow charts on these. Any help is appreciated.

[RacerX11]

The rpm has nothing to do with the size. It is strictly about airflow and power. The airflow requirements of a 300HP 3.4L engine spinning 8000rpm is the same as the airflow requirements of a 300HP 1.0L engine spinning 16000rpm. The F4i redlines at 14,000rpm, but it is a 600cc engine. The 40mm's, which are used on the 929RR, flow about 150HP, with a redline of just under 12K. But it is more than just the throttle plate size. What size is the throat of the TB? They generally have a larger throat that tapers down to the throttle plate, then tapers down further to the runner. This keeps velocity up.

In my opinion, the individual TB's aren't worth the hassle. I think you could build a custom intake with shorter, tapered runners and a larger plenum, all fed by a single large TB. You will sacrifice some throttle response, but if you size the length, diameter, and taper of the runners properly to keep intake velocity up, you probably won't notice it. The ultimate power potential will be the same as an ITB setup, but it will be cheaper and easier to build.

You are going to custom build an intake manifold to fit these TB's, but you don't want to worry about fabbing fuel rails and linkages? Come on...they would be the simple part of the system. Do some research on engine induction design before spending a crapload of money on parts. For $1100, I could build you two ITB setups sourced from motorcylce parts, and still have enough money left over to build a set of headers.

I'm not trying to step on your nuts. You asked for some input on the whole thing, and I am telling you how you can go about it much cheaper. I just don't want you to get it all done, then tell everyone you can't build them to sell because they cost way to much (like the headers). Do the research up front (there are several books available discussing induction system design), figure out the best (and most cost effective) options, and save yourself both the money and the headache.

Marty

[Anonymous]

I appreciate your input, regardless of it's content

But I am pretty set on this design. I have sized the runner lengh and the diameter.

I do not think HP has much to do with flow. Sure more flow=more HP, but a motor can flow a lot and still not make big numbers, or visa versa. The throat is about 50mm, then it tapers to whatever TB size you need, then it continues at whatever diameter you desire.

Also I am buying them, 2 sets of 3. So 3 are attached to each other. This keeps them at a set distance apart, and the throttle shaft runs through all 3, essentially keeping them 1 piece. This is one reason I can't use the bike ones.

It isn't that I do not want to worry about it, it's that I do not need to. They include a fuel rail, of which I attach the fuel line into, get the pres reg, etc. easy. And the throttle cables are easy, there will be 2, I combine them into 1 and use my factory wire to pull them. It will involve a little fabrication, but not much.

[brian89gp]

Did anyone watch the TLC show about the new Shelby Cobra? Well they had a NA V10 powering it with independent TB's, except it didn't look like the normal throttle plate design. It looked to be a sliding plate with holes in it between 2 other plates. The whole thing looked to be 1 maybe 2" thick.

[brian89gp]

http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/cobraconcept28.jpg

They call it a "slide-plate throttle". Notice how thin it is, and how cheap it would be to make if you have access to machine aluminum.

[dykz34]

That looks like a crazy setup!

Sorry Aaron, I have no input on this topic... To be honest, I think it's a waste of time and money! Just get a stock 91-95 plenum, gut it, and praise to Allah for top-end.

[wireman121]

for the IAC, you could run a similar vaccum line, only larger, from each TB and have them join together in something similar to where the stock IAC fits into. You could then just use the stock IAC to control the airflow, and then after the IAC you would be distributing the air to each TB.