what is needed for dual throttlebody intake?

[no_doz]

if you wanted to go about fabricating a twin throttlebody intake for an LQ1 using the stock LIM & a custom fabbed upper, what would need to be done to make the computer system able to deal with this if dealing with a 90-92 OBD1 mpfi system?

[robertisaar]

jesus christ, i KNEW this was a no_doz thread from the title alone...

[WrathOfSocrus]

Remove UIM and LIM

Set UIM on table, tb facing you

Smash UIM over your head, look for two TBs

If you see only one TB repeat the last step.

Seriously, the last dozen or more threads you have made aren't only ridiculous, but you are never even going to ATTEMPT to try them. Unfortunately lots of people here take you seriously and waste their valuable time telling you things that are over your head and the idea falls to the wayside.

I realize you dare to be different but you should seriously read more existing threads and create less new threads. Rebuild something the way it was stock and be proud of actually getting something accomplished for once. It will be a valuable learning experience as opposed to coming here and having a ton of information thrown at you with only one ounce sinking in.

[95SleeperAcheiva]

hey, don't be so hard on him. If it wasn't for dreams and dreamers, this site and all of us on it wouldn't be here. Maybe he's in the same spot most of us are still in, broke but thinking, broke but dreaming, "one day I'll be able to......and it will have....with....and won't it be cool because of....all because of everyone who helped me on 60 degree even when they thought I was a lame, no talent, immature, no skill, and just a dreamer, but they looked beyond all that and thanks to them they gave me hope to not be another mindless ricer who only thought of the next biggest fart can and MORE BASS!"

We all started somewhere. The bravest of us started after we had licenses and after high-school, we already missed our prime to learn the basics. Not me, I had a greasy socket shoved in my hand as an infant, and forced to learn, I'm just say'in is all.

NO DOZ, in order to "need" an extra TB she needs to be capable of breathing all that extra CFM. Otherwise there is no point to it, like overly large TB's on some of these stock cammed engines like that moron running the 75mm on the 3400 achieva....oh wait thats me. Anyways, the multi-TB engines, like the old can-am cars of the 60's that ran 8 TB's on mechanical fuel injectors, they spun 10K-12K rpm with high lift and HAD to have all that for the air-flow.

Things to remember, fuel injection, multi-valve per cylinder, over head cams, alloyed engines, forged and balanced lower ends, economy engines that drop cylinders, variable valve timing, variable valve lift, variable intake runners that change length on demand, variable stroke, hydrogen fueled, etc etc etc, none of this is new. NONE! OH and ALL AMERICAN INVENTIONS! Lets not forget in 1989 GM loaded, then stat-of the art, 4 computers into a 1989 Bonneville trunk, and wired the car for computer drive. The car drove from DC to LA, 97% of the time was driven by the computer, the 3% by the humans was them teaching it to drive in the very start of the trip. It did lane changes, rush-hour, and even scheduled rest stops for the crew and fuel.

Just wait, there is some new stuff, well...sort of new. How about an engine that uses computer controlled solenoids to fire the valves? That's right, no timing chain/belt, cams, etc... Hopefully GM didn't get it killed. It's a Cadillac motor, pushes 1200 HP and still gets 30+MPG. Because at idle it drops cylinders and changes its "cam" profiles to min. But stomp on it and you get a computer loaded "cam" profile for .800" lift and major duration! Thats right the computer has 10k cam profiles loaded in it to use the best profile required on demand. Wrap your mind on that one!

Now if we can just get rid of the pencil pushing accountants that don't know jack about cars out of GM, we can have a real car company again. NTM shoot the jack*ss ceo of buick who killed Oldsmobile because he was sick of being #3 to cadillac after Olds. Which BTW BUICK IS STILL #3!

but I'm, getting off topic. Keep dreaming, keep thinking, one day it'll all come together and it will be great!

[robertisaar]

^ i was thinking a similar thing... maybe i overreacted a little, but damn, i know how to spot a no_doz thread like nothing else...

i actually saw a twin TB fiero intake before, but the guy who made it did about the shittiest job EVER... welds looked worse than my first-ever exhaust welds! looked like the intake used on some late-model mustang...

point being, a dual-TB setup would be overkill unless you used two VERY small TBs... even then, for a good MAP reading, you would probably need to connect all six cylinders to the vacuum line for the MAP or else it would fluctuate like and o2 sensor, a constant sine-wave. doing just one bank MIGHT get a steady signal, but i wouldn't count on it.

if you're serious about this kind of thing, i can help with all the ECU related stuff, i'll even hand-draw diagrams.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

fuck that, just add a second motor.

[no_doz]

not to say that im actually going to do it-but i have toyed around with the idea & found a lot of info to suggest that if done properly on a highly modified LQ1 built to take some nice rpms, that it could be something substantial.

theres always sending it to E.N.D.Y.N. & paying $1100-1500 for them to port the piss out of it & reshaped the combustion chambers & etc... crank balance & knife edge, cam regrind, H-beam rods

if they can get 320 bhp out of a NA honda 2.0 at 9500 rpms with the same shit done to it, why not give it a shot with the LQ1 & a bit less of rpms (7k-8k)? if the numbers are even close to correct 400-450 crank hp a built N.A. LQ1 would just be insane.

as i said in the beginning, not that i intend to do it, but whats the harm in discussing options & theory.

[robertisaar]

no problem discussing theory...

a honda making that power is because it has NOTHING below 5K RPM... its like a top fuel car, its either all or nothing.

if you want a motor like that, get some BIG lobed cams and then go through everything you listed that ENDYN would do, since it would all be necessary anyway for a motor to turn that high, make that much power with ANY kind of reliability...

but

there is always more than one mean to an end...

the easier, more reliable and cheaper option would be to stick a turbo or two on it and call it a day.



BUT




if you really want to go about it, it is possible.

[95SleeperAcheiva]

fuck that, just add a second motor.

Remembering a certain Oldsmobile per chance? :P

It's too bad these engines started life as they did, regular motors that we are trying to get as much out of as possible.

I happen to like the other approach that a different GM company did in motor design. Let the motor be born a HP monster and then de-tune it for production.

Exhibit A- 2.0L quad-4
exhibit B- 4.0L Aurora

Courtesy if Wiki:
The Oldsmobile Aerotechs were a series of experimental high-speed vehicles created between 1987 and 1992 incorporating the latest in performance technology with the intention of breaking multiple automobile speed records. The first such car was driven by four-time Indy 500 winner A.J. Foyt to a world closed-course speed record of 257.123mph (413.788 km/h) on 27 August 1987 at the 7.712-mile (12.411 km) test track near Fort Stockton Texas. Prior to this, on 26 August 1987, the car had posted a top speed over a mile of 267.88 mph (431.10 km/h). The car consisted of a March Indycar single seat chassis enclosed in an extremely efficient aerodynamic body shell. It was powered by a highly turbo-charged version of the 2-litre Oldsmobile Quad 4 engine. The Aerotech body was designed by GM Design staff and was one of the sleekest vehicles ever developed for use on a high speed track. The design of the Aerotech included the capability of adjusting underbody sections to control the distribution of downforce, front to rear. Oldsmobile produced three versions of the original Aerotech to prove the capabilities of the company's Quad4 engine. Two were short-tailed (ST) versions and one was long-tailed (LT).
Subsequently, between 6 - 14 December 1992, another version of the Aerotech, this time powered by a 4.0 litre Oldsmobile Aurora V8 engine and fitted with lights, broke 47 speed endurance records including the 10000 and 25000 kilometre world speed records. Other national and international speed records ranging from 10 kilometres to 24 hours were accomplished by a team of drivers working 24 hours a day for 8 days. These records were also set at the Fort Stockton test track.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

im not sure the names of these, one is a calais fe3, but the other one or two confuse me.... thought they might play in here. or im in a whole nother field or sport






all that body mod, and it had a GP style interior, but wtf is up with that motor. (or lack there of) the STB is lookin pretty half ass to me too.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

Olds Firenza FE3





Some free memories.

[z34phoenix]

STB? i think that is the link for the wiper blade arms...


yes it is nice to dream up ideas, but i think it is best to put some realism and perspective into it... yes two would be cool and diff. but one big one will flow better and be cheaper to do so you can do more mods.

also the most important fact... these tranys can not handle that kind of power. there is a reason why the lq1 goes thru tranys... they make too much power in the top end where the tranys are weakest. from tuning i know how much tq and power is reduced at and above peak power... it is disgusting! if we could just get a trany that could handle the power we could remove the trany protection in the computer file and it would be like adding a turbo! without the boyracer sound!

[robertisaar]

even in the earliest LQ1 code, there is tranny protection, i can only imagine how much further it was "refined" throughout the years...

[RedZMonte]

One big one would be plenty, but i do like the look of two nice big ones.....


another option would be something like a LT1 style where you can have 1 TB feed a split upper plennum (front bank and rear bank split). you would only have to worry about hooking up 1 throttle cable, 1 IAC, ect... but then again it might be easier to use one massive plennum and TB.


S

[RedZMonte]

4T80e FTW! Or OBDII Swap (1997) and run a 4T65E-HD...

I have not heard anyone breaking a 4T80 from too much power... i know the local yard to me has a Shyt load of them all the time...

S