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  • I thought I'd rekindle this topic for a turbo "what-if?"

    The 96 cams are the same, just ground 4 deg. ADVANCED from the earlier engines (going off numbers found here somewhere: 108ICL, 115ECL for the 96 vs. 112/111 for the 94-95). I'm sure this was for emissions purposes. INteresting how the engine made more hp at higher rpm than the earlier with cams ADVANCED! Opposite normal expectations. It must be all in the heads.

    Anyway, by retarding the exhaust 13*, one adds that much overlap, which helps in scavenging, which helps high end, blah, blah... actually, retarding the intake about half that would even open it up more.

    BUT, on a boosted engine, you want to keep the overlap to a minimum, otherwise you're just blowing off your intake charge. So, you want the exhaust to open sooner (within reason... if it opens too soon, you get too much reversion and kill power everywhere). The earlier exhaust opening event helps to build boost quicker.

    Lastly, the way to increase effective rpm on a boosted engine is to retard the intake. Something like 4-8deg. Or, on a 8000rpm max race engine, as much as 15deg. A side benefit is reduced overlap which as mentioned above, furthur helps the turbo build cylinder pressure.

    Now, all of this assumes one is attempting to gain the most out of stock cams for cost reasons, racing class rules, etc. Aftermarket cams will have these timing changes ground into the profile and should always be set to manufacturers specifications.

    So, I am going to start with a 4deg retard on the intakes to see what I get. Using Michael Smiths Fiero project, he retarded the intake 8deg. and peaked at 7500, 2000rpms higher than stock, so I hope 4deg. will give me about 1000 more, from 5500-6500.

    How's all this sound????
    Jeff Ianitello
    Engineered Performance
    Atlanta, GA.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pontiacjeff
      INteresting how the engine made more hp at higher rpm than the earlier with cams ADVANCED! Opposite normal expectations. It must be all in the heads.
      It's in the intake mostly. Ask anyone who has changed over to the 96 intake on a 91/5 engine (there are a couple here). I'm sure the large exhaust ports on the newer engines helps out though.
      -60v6's 2nd Jon M.
      91 Black Lumina Z34-5 speed
      92 Black Lumina Z34 5 speed (getting there, slowly... follow the progress here)
      94 Red Ford Ranger 2WD-5 speed
      Originally posted by Jay Leno
      Tires are cheap clutches...

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      • I've read this whole thread now and I didn't see anyone answer the question about how much lift on a custom cam is safe to use before hitting? Anyone know?
        Very interesting thread btw. I've been lurking for a while here now and finally decided to join.
        Thanks in advance.
        Activities Director
        N.I.F.E.
        88 Fiero formula 5-speed.
        modded 2.8 pushrod...for now.
        www.fierofocus.com

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        • No one to my knowlege has measured the clearance in the cam carriers yet

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          • I don't believe the cam carriers will be an issue with a regrind, unless they are welding to the lobe and then grinding. Reduction of the base circle for extra lift won't cause issues there but you would need lash caps to take care of lash. Also, I haven't measured the clearance for the piston to valves but have been told .012 is the most you can deck the heads...so you can see what that leaves if you increase lift. It just makes it interference, doesn't mean you can't run higher lift.
            Ben
            60DegreeV6.com
            WOT-Tech.com

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            • unless they are welding to the lobe and then grinding.
              Thats what Im assuming. How is a regrind done? I dont see any other way to move the IVOs,IVC's/EVOs, EVCs around so much, or up the valve open duration.

              But then again, I dont know how a cam regrind is done

              Comment


              • You grind down the base lobe, which changes the lash aspects, hence the lash caps. Lift is determined by taking the base circle diameter and subtracting it from the lift part of the lobe measurement. After you have the extra lift from the base lobe being cut down, you can grind the lift area different to change the duration. You could possibly offset grind it some for the open and close changes, but thats foolish on our setup unless you really only want to time the cams totally stock. Its not really that hard to change the open and close though which is why we have people like me running retarded exhaust. On a pushrod you can't change the centerline much if at all and get a good spec for duration and lift from it as well. That doesn't apply to us
                Ben
                60DegreeV6.com
                WOT-Tech.com

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                • neat

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sappyse107
                    I don't believe the cam carriers will be an issue with a regrind, unless they are welding to the lobe and then grinding. Reduction of the base circle for extra lift won't cause issues there but you would need lash caps to take care of lash. Also, I haven't measured the clearance for the piston to valves but have been told .012 is the most you can deck the heads...so you can see what that leaves if you increase lift. It just makes it interference, doesn't mean you can't run higher lift.
                    Old post I dug up researching cams. hehe
                    What I didnt see it mentioned anywere in post is decking the bottom of cam carriers. To take up the lash if we grind the lobe base circle down. that would allow more lift and more optoions on regrinding.
                    This should work. Or did I miss something.
                    1997 Z34 Monte,: testing 4 exh cam\'s, RSM STB, K&N, Eagle077 245/40/ZR18 Nitto Extreme
                    1972 3/4 ton 4X4 longbed, built 350, 400 auto, 6\" spring lift, 35\" AT/BFG\'s, dana 60 front axle, 14 bolt gm w/detroit locker 4.56 gears. My ricer smasher

                    Comment


                    • That should work but it might throw your belt tensioner out of specs. It also depends on how much you are taking off. Cam carrier bolts will probably need to be cut shorter as well.
                      Ben
                      60DegreeV6.com
                      WOT-Tech.com

                      Comment


                      • holy crap i never thought of that. instead of using longer valves or adding onto the lifter, just deck the carriers. would it work? if so GENIUS.
                        The Official Rotating Mass Nazi

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                        • Hey! I see this is an old post, originally, did anything ever come
                          from this? Has anyone tried a set of reground cams on a dohc,or is
                          this still in the works?

                          Brian
                          92z34 ffp stuff so far.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sappyse107
                            That should work but it might throw your belt tensioner out of specs. It also depends on how much you are taking off. Cam carrier bolts will probably need to be cut shorter as well.
                            I would imagine it wouldn't be more than 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. Could take up belt added slack with a slightly larger t-belt idler. If it needs it. I pretty sure the belt tensiomer has enough movement to do it by itself.
                            1997 Z34 Monte,: testing 4 exh cam\'s, RSM STB, K&N, Eagle077 245/40/ZR18 Nitto Extreme
                            1972 3/4 ton 4X4 longbed, built 350, 400 auto, 6\" spring lift, 35\" AT/BFG\'s, dana 60 front axle, 14 bolt gm w/detroit locker 4.56 gears. My ricer smasher

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 3car
                              Hey! I see this is an old post, originally, did anything ever come
                              from this? Has anyone tried a set of reground cams on a dohc,or is
                              this still in the works?

                              Brian
                              92z34 ffp stuff so far.
                              I'm not sure if anyone has. I dont think so.

                              Has anyone with DD run it with exhaust cam spec's in place of intake spec's? The 4 exhaust cam idea again.
                              1997 Z34 Monte,: testing 4 exh cam\'s, RSM STB, K&N, Eagle077 245/40/ZR18 Nitto Extreme
                              1972 3/4 ton 4X4 longbed, built 350, 400 auto, 6\" spring lift, 35\" AT/BFG\'s, dana 60 front axle, 14 bolt gm w/detroit locker 4.56 gears. My ricer smasher

                              Comment


                              • I'm still waiting to see what ben got out of advanceing the intake cams for more low end torque and if that doesn't work a high stall TC will be next on my list
                                1991 Lumina Z34 - http://members.sounddomain.com/lcmbear77
                                1979 El camino (Faster of the two)
                                FFP Stuff (chip, D Bone, UD pulley)
                                Custom STB,WAI with K&N, Full Catback with Dual Magnaflows and Rative tips, 3k stall and 3.73 gearing coming soon

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