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cam timing on a 5-speed with 96 engine

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  • cam timing on a 5-speed with 96 engine

    i was asking about this in another post, but i started my own hoping to get more attention.

    here's what i have: 91 GTP 5-speed with 96 block, heads, cam towers, and 91 uim and lim. i also have a set of 92 cam towers. i will in the near future be putting 96-97 uim and lim on the car.

    here's what i know or think is true: 94-97 cam cogs are easier to change the timing on, 91-95 cams are supposed to be better than 96-97 cams (also have heard of possibly using exhaust cams on both banks), exhaust on 96-97 cams is 4* retarded, 96-97 cogs have more teeth, you want different timing for a manual vs. an automatic

    so, my questions are, first off, if what i said is true. my next question is what timing do you guys personally recommend for essentially a 96 5-speed and should i use the 92 cams in the 96 carriers or a something different.

    thanks in advance for any input. it would be nice for us to compile all the data and facts we have on this subject so people like me dont have to ask these questions all the time.

    edit: i found the spec's on alldata for 92 vs. 97 cams. the lift inches, journal dia, bore id, and journal clearance are the same. the only difference is on the 97 engine, intake is at 108* crank atdc/exhaust is at 115* btdc and the 92 engine intake is at 112* atdc/exhaust is at 111* btdc. therefore, the cams are already +2/-2 cam (if im figuring that out right). i also found that 91 journal diameters were different than 92/97 (2.165-2.166 for 91) as well as camshaft bearing clearance from 91-92 at least (.0015-.0035 for 91). this also tells me (i think) that there is no benefit to using the older cams (unless its duration since i dont have those spec's) as i was led to believe.
    Last edited by pwmin; 04-12-2007, 07:58 PM. Reason: more information
    91 GTP HM-284 GONE
    96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

    98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
    87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
    06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

  • #2
    since we are discussing cam facts the 97 cam banks use 33mm lifters whereas the 91-96 use 35mm lifters.
    The Official Rotating Mass Nazi

    Comment


    • #3
      How much you want to take that 91 5spd GP off your hands?
      '93 Sunbird. 5spd, 3.1, it's fast. Oh, and 240k miles has proven lethal against Turbo Talons

      I'm lurking occasionaly. It's tough because I'm usually too busy with the Army or my 5.0 Mustang. Which is for sale.

      camaromanmatt@yahoo.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 85_305 View Post
        How much you want to take that 91 5spd GP off your hands?
        haha, i might have considered selling it, but its down to the block right now. and im going to have the heads decked and a valve job. wasnt planning on it, but it kinda needs it.



        could someone at least answer this question for me: i have figured out some stuff and i think im going to go with the 92 cams w/ 96 cogs and carriers. now, to do the timing, i should go with +6/-13, right? also, since im using 92 cams, i wont have to worry about the 96 having +0/-4 or +2/-2 or whatever it has, correct?
        91 GTP HM-284 GONE
        96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

        98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
        87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
        06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

        Comment


        • #5
          Well sorry I can't answer your question, But if ya ever wanna sell it let me know
          '93 Sunbird. 5spd, 3.1, it's fast. Oh, and 240k miles has proven lethal against Turbo Talons

          I'm lurking occasionaly. It's tough because I'm usually too busy with the Army or my 5.0 Mustang. Which is for sale.

          camaromanmatt@yahoo.com

          Comment


          • #6
            will do

            anyone? ive researched this and i think i know the answers, but i'd like some confirmation.
            91 GTP HM-284 GONE
            96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

            98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
            87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
            06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

            Comment


            • #7
              stock timing and 5-10psi boost will be a good setup
              Shane "RedZMonte"
              2004 Corvette Z06 Commemorative Edition -VIRGIN
              1995 Monte Carlo Z34 14.38@101mph, 331hp/355tq
              -Turbonetics T04E Super 60 Turbo, 2.5" Borla Catback, OBDII, 42.5# Injectors
              2004 Subaru WRX STI -Lightly Modded (SOLD)
              1994 Lumina Z34 -VIRGIN (SOLD)
              1992 Lumina Z34-VIRGIN (RIP)
              1992 L67 Lumina Z34 (SOLD)
              1990 Turbo Grand Prix (SOLD)

              Comment


              • #8
                shut up, shane
                91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                Comment


                • #9
                  pix and video here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...0Rebuild%2007/

                  got it back together and running. i didnt spend a whole lot of time porting and polishing the heads and intakes, but i did do some. had a hell of a time understanding the directions for timing in the articles section, but i got it figured out. i traced out the extra pulley i had and used some math to figure out the arc angle, marked it on the cutout, and made marks on the pulley. i used 12 degrees to be on the safe side since i used a tape measure that went to 32nds, so it ended up being between 12 and 13 crank degrees retarded. i only changed the exhaust cam timing and i did use 92 cams. therefore, i ended up with 96 everything minus 91 UIM/LIM, 92 cams, and 91 rear carrier cover. i was lucky to have gotten a set of valve covers gaskets from redzmonte last week as i was unaware that the older style cam carrier covers had smaller spark plug grommets or whatever you call them since it has 96 front cover and 91 rear cover. i got a head set for a 96 engine as well as an intake set for a 91. i ended up with the front heads being milled .010 with a valve job and the rear head was reman (new valves and unknown milling). i also polished the front valve cover and uim.

                  car definitely feels like it has more power, but it doesnt feel like it pulls on the top end like the 96 did. kinda feels like it chokes a little. any ideas? i might need a walbro and L67 injectors. im thinking i might need the 96 intakes, too, but i kinda wanted the older style. im going to dyno it on saturday, but its going to be on a dyno dynamics eddy current dyno and the numbers are usually about 20% less (corrected) than an inertia dynojet, so the numbers will appear to be lower. but, this will tell me whats going on a little better. had problems with it dying when idling but i bumped the idle a little and i think it needed to relearn a little, too.
                  91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                  96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                  98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                  87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                  06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    feels like its looseing up on the top end??? i think the exhaust is choking out the upper end hp.
                    91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                    96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                    98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                    87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                    06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the 96 intake would breath better.
                      Something cool coming soon...


                      96 LQ1!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FieroWannaBe View Post
                        the 96 intake would breath better.
                        i know that would help with top end, but i want to keep the older style since. it feels really good down low to about 5500 and i think i would lose some of that with the newer style. i know i will with larger exhaust, too, but it needs exhaust anyway. im hoping i can find an ffp udp: that might help also. the plug wires arent very good, either, but i doubt that will help. gonna get some KV85's eventually.
                        91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                        96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                        98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                        87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                        06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          guess ill figure it out myself
                          91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                          96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                          98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                          87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                          06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            some of my problem was a bad coil (#4 wasnt firing). replaced that, but it still does it. wires were sparking through and are crappy anyway, so i ordered some KV-85's. i also have a new ffp udp on the way.

                            i am also getting a ticking noise when the rpm's are low (runs a little rough cuz of the timing). sounds like a balancer. does that sound plausable?
                            91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                            96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                            98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                            87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                            06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              finally got my KV-85 wires yesterday and got them installed today. no more missing and no more crappy top end!
                              91 GTP HM-284 GONE
                              96 Special Edition LQ1/4T60E GONE

                              98 Spawn of Satan (L67 Regal)
                              87 V10 SM-465/Mild 350
                              06 Cobalt SS/SC GONE

                              Comment

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