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Oy-vay.... M61 Frag Grenade and LQ1 topend. Compare/Contrast

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  • Oy-vay.... M61 Frag Grenade and LQ1 topend. Compare/Contrast

    Well, as much fun as a 92 TDC in a pontiac Fiero can be over a summer, all good things must come to an end.

    The motor was a 190k-km donor out of a 92 Olds Cut/Sup/Int Auto donor and mated to an M19 Muncie 4.10 4-speed stick in an '84 Fiero.

    I did the wiring myself, and save for a few minor gremlins, it ran strong, and it ran HARD.

    So, the story goes like this:

    Since I had bought the motor, there was a bit of lifter tick coming from around piston #1. Nothing major. Plenty of power, no burning oil, oil was clean. Slight leak from the distro plug (surprised aren't you ). Oil pressure was a steady 30psi at idle when warm (with 10w30)

    After about a week of driving, I became aware of a louder tick(more of a tap) that coincided PERFECTLY with an exhaust pulse (in a fairly open exhaust, you know that musical throb you get at cruise? Well, it was matched up beautifully with it), but ONLY while accelerating from cruise, and between 2000 and 2200rpm. It was much louder than what I'd normally associate with a valve tick or lifter clatter... I was pretty much convinced that I had an exhaust leak in my front manifold (which btw is about 3" away from the firewall in a Fiero) and that It was just exhaust noise.

    This continued for about 2-3 months... The weather turned cold, I switched to 5w30 (from 10w30) and the valve tick got a hair louder once the car warmed up. Oil pressure dropped a hair to ~25psi at idle warm.

    Of course, with the icy roads, there were no more hard starts or high-speed runs. Glare Ice and packed snow (even with my totally awesome winter tires) make for gentle if not paranoid driving habits. The car ran better than before (my theory was that it was idling rich, and the cold air was softening this), but the ticking was a bit louder than before. Then again, EVERYTHING was louder than before. I associate this with all the bushings icing up and transmitting more noise....

    And then, on a particularly mild sunday (12º below freezing) I changed the oil. The oil had been in for just over a month (I'm neurotic about oil-changes. Once every 2 months TOPS, once per month favorably) and was if not squeeky clean, only just starting to darken (was the color of dark honey). No sparklies or milky-way galaxies in the oil pan. I topped it up, spun on the new filter, started it up, checked the oil, and resumed the commuting routine.

    Two days later, I'm on the freeway to work, cruising at 50mph (~80kph) and I hear what sounded like an explosion in the back. The car lurched, and then continued on... Only now it sounded like someone had put a coffee can of bolts in the spin-cycle of a washing machine.

    I pulled over, and popped the decklid. It was definitely lifter noise. It was WAY too slow to be bottom end... But holy frijoles.... It sounded like some mad bastard was smacking the head with a ballpeen hammer. It wasn't a knock so much as a gunshot.

    Well, to hell with that. Limped the car home (already wrote off the engine by this point. no WAY that something big isn't broked). drove it into a snowbank in the back 40, and dusted off my new Dodge Colt Winter Beater.

    So, Does anyone have any theories? I'm a little attached to the ends of my fingers, and I don't have a heated garage, so I won't be tearing into the motor until spring.

    MY question to you folks is this:

    WTF happened, and WTF can I do to make sure it don't happen again.

    I've pinpointed the location of the "break" to be just over Piston #2 (that's the one on the rear bank closest to acc. pulleys... Unless I'm flipped). If I yank the plug wire (what I'd do to check bottom end noise) the noise changes and becomes a solid thump rather than a more metallic SMACK!

    There's no metal in the oil (at least, what I can see on the dipstick), and oil-pressure is still good. More amazingly, the car still had smooth power (didn't try past 3000rpm obviously)... So it's still FIRING at least on all cans...

    Other than that, I'm not going to open that can o worms until spring. Any thoughts?


  • #2
    Really hard to say without actually tearing into it. Perhaps a lifter finally shit itself and its collapsed? Probably too loud to be something like that? Compression check? Doesn't sound good but perhaps its just top end and the engine block and bottom end were spared? You can hope
    Ben
    60DegreeV6.com
    WOT-Tech.com

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    • #3
      Oh, and BTW... The first person to say "Don't drive it so hard!" Gets a free kick in the junk!

      If I wanted to be easy on it, I would have kept the 4-banger Duke that the car came with

      Suffice to say, this motor only ever saw the rev-limiter twice. Once on purpose, (finding power-band) and once on a missed shift (1-2, 2-N) when I broke a shift-cable. Either case, only up to 7000rpm. I run my motors hard, but I try not to ABUSE them

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      • #4
        A friend had something simmilar happen on a dodge ohc 4banger. The top end wasnt getting enough oil somehow and when one of the cam bearings spun it snapped off the back half of the cam . When the cam stopped a valve cracked the piston in half over the pin-so the piston was still "working" but like a shitty ensemble and the intake valve was 'kinda' fuked up. HA! He said he heard something but thought he had just run over a piece of crap in the road and probably would have totally written it off if the thing hadn't kept back firing and lit his air filter on fire!

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        • #5
          LOL!

          That's an awesome story. I much suspect it's something similar; I don't think I broke a cam, since it the noise is right near the cam gear (so the entire rear bank would have stopped, too). I think I either blew up a lifter (and the broken peices are making the noise against the tattered remains of that cam lobe) or broke a valve-retainer/spring retainer/perch (and now the valve is bouncing up and down off the piston.

          I don't buy the theory that it's a broken cam, simply because the motor still fires smoothly on all 6. As I said, power is still there, and smooth (not that I was dumb enough to take it up past 3k once the noise started)

          I've driven a v6 with a dead hole... The bugger shook like it was epileptic

          Assuming that I didn't wreck a piston, I might be able to get away with just replacing the head... But since I'm anal about these things, I'll just end up rebuiding the motor myself, to MY specs. <insert maniacal laughter here>

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          • #6
            LOL

            Memory fades rapidly in winter. I started it up to move it out of the way of the snow plow...

            If it was loud before, you should hear it now with the lifters all drained out.

            RACKATARACKATACKATA!!!!!1111!!!


            I've found a pair of heads and cam carriers for $150cdn at a local wrecker. It'll be a month yet before it's warm enough not to lose the ends of my fingers, but the parts and labor are starting to come together. The bottom end's going to get blueprinted and balanced. Dunno if it'll run before I bug out to Europe in August, but when it does run, it's going to be a monster

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