93 Lumina stalling update

[dennisinmo]

I wrote on the old message forum about my son?s 93 Lumina that stalled when warmed up. It would stall at idle when the rad fan came on and when he slowed down to stop. Sometimes he would get an EGR code but most of the time it would not send a trouble code. We replaced EGR, IAC, TPS, wires, temp sensor, primary radiator fan, fuel filter, ECM,. Cleaned EGR line and intake manifold, checked for intake leaks, checked alternator. Took over 6 months to fix this problem.
The fix was GM TSB 676303 ?Fuel System - Phantom Stalls at Closed Throttle/Loads?.
The fix is new fuel injectors that are a new design. The GM part number is 25170699. Car parts stores do not carry these.
The car has been running almost a week without any stalling. What a relief!!
Sorry for the long post but wanted to help anyone who may be experiencing this same problem.

[blk92z34getrag]

Were your stalling symptoms the ones that I descirbed in my post? I've been having constant stalling problems... how much did you pay for those injectors?

[dennisinmo]

The stalling problem sounds the same except he does not have a manual transmission. The car would stall when warmed up setting in the driveway when the temp would get high enough to turn on the radiator fan. That's why we suspected the fan motor or alt. It also stalled when warmed up and he slowed down to turn a corner. The power steering would load the motor enough to stall. The idle would also pulsate from 500-200rpm and then die at a stop sign.
We got the injectors from a parts manager who gets parts for cost for people who are in car clubs, even though we are not in any clubs. The retail price is $121 and we got them for around $74 w/shipping. I'll try to locate the man's name who got us the injectors.
I know how you feel with this problem. My son went to 8-9 different places and spent approx. $1,000 before we got the injectors. We have a box of spare parts in my basement.

[blk92z34getrag]

Yep, I have a box of spare parts too =) All the stupid sensors and what-not. Yeah that sounds a lot like my car. In fact, the power steering part does too! I'll have to talk to a few of my buddies at different shops and see if I can get these.

Thanks for the info, I'm sure I'm not the only one you've helped.

EDIT: My chips tels my fans to turn on at 160* (to match my thermostat) so mine are on al the time. However I did unplug one of the fans to see if that would alleviate the problem, which it did only slightly.

[blk92z34getrag]

Just an update to anyone who's having this problem... those fuel injectors mentioned above are like US$70 at www.gmpartsdirect.com. I'm currently contemplating getting them... first I'm going to check the part number of my current injectors.

[blk92z34getrag]

Oh... also to Dennisinmo (if you ever still read this) where did you get all the info on the TSB?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

What is the "TSB" and what are the numbers after it? The part #?

I am having these exact same problems.

[Anonymous]

Are these injectors for 91-94 or any year? also, IS the 70$ for all 6 or each? lastly, will they be the same part # for the autos and the 5-speeds?

[blk92z34getrag]

$70 each, yes same Part Number, and I believe any year... I'm trying to find out more info on the TSB other than the title. I'm gonna call my dealer tomorrow (closed on Sundays) and see if they can fish out more info in the TSB.

GM TSB 676303 ?Fuel System - Phantom Stalls at Closed Throttle/Loads?.
GM part number: 25170699

[4spdz34]

here ya go gotta love si2k







PHANTOM STALLS AT CLOSED THROTTLE & HIGH ENGINE LOADS #67-63-03 - (06/05/1996)
SUBJECT: PHANTOM STALLS AT CLOSED THROTTLE AND HIGH ENGINE LOADS (REPLACE FUEL INJECTORS)

MODELS: 1991-93 CHEVROLET LUMINA 1991-93 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME 1991-93 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX WITH 3.4L TWIN DOHC V6 ENGINE (VIN X - RPO LQ1)

CONDITION:

SOME OWNERS MAY EXPERIENCE A PHANTOM STALL WHEN THE ENGINE THROTTLE IS CLOSED AND HIGH LOAD DEMANDS ARE PLACED ON THE ENGINE. TYPICALLY THIS IS ENCOUNTERED WHEN THE OWNER IS MANEUVERING IN A PARKING LOT AT AN IDLE SPEED WITH A CLOSED THROTTLE AND PLACING A HIGH LOAD DEMAND ON THE ENGINE SUCH AS POWER STEERING. THE ENGINE COULD STALL BUT WOULD RESTART IMMEDIATELY. THIS TYPE OF STALL IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DUPLICATE.

CORRECTION:

A NEW FUEL INJECTOR, PART NUMBER 25170699, HAS BEEN RELEASED FOR SERVICE TO CORRECT THIS CONDITION. THE NEW FUEL INJECTOR IS DESIGNED TO FLOW RICHER AT A LOW PULSE WIDTH. BEFORE REPLACING THE INJECTORS, REMEMBER TO CHECK THE FOLLOWING:

1) MINIMUM AIR RATE SETTING.

2) VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS: CHECK CRANKSHAFT END PLAY, REFER TO BULLETIN 236007.

3) POWER STEERING PRESSURE SWITCH.

4) MAKE SURE THE LATEST CALIBRATION IS INSTALLED IN THE VEHICLE, REFER TO BULLETIN 336506.

PARTS INFORMATION

PARTS ARE EXPECTED TO BE AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO ON JUNE 10, 1996.

QTY PART NUMBER NAME

6 25170699 INJECTOR ASM - M/PORT FUEL

WARRANTY INFORMATION

FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:

LABOR CODE: J5650 INJECTOR, FUEL - REPLACE LABOR TIME: USE PUBLISHED LABOR OPERATION TIME.

FIGURES: 0 ATTACHMENTS: 0

GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.

COPYRIGHT 1996. GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

[wdowey]

could have got all 6 injectors from summit racring for $190....Accel stage 1.
Just did them on a 91

[dennisinmo]

Gmpartsdirect.com wanted $13.88 shipping for each injector which brought the price to $83.26 per injector. The car is still running fine. Had to pull the intake manifold off a week after we installed the new injectors because of a fuel leak. One of the injector O-rings at the fuel rail had a nick in it and leaked a lot of fuel on top of the motor. Lesson learned: pressurize the fuel rail and check for leaks before you install the intake manifold.