Timing Belt Question

[ronniels]

once I line up the cam flats and ligned up the timing marks below...whay do I need to loosen the cam sprockets?

[pocket-rocket]

Because if you leave the front and rear cam flats up, your going to have a power stroke on 2 cylinders at the same time, instead of alternating and the car will run like a double 3 cylinder. Once you get the belt off, cam gears loose (or removed, lockrings removed and gears put back on so they freewheel), new belt on one set has to be up while the other set is down or 180* apart for it to run correctly.

[ronniels]

OK, that makes perfect sense, Thank you
Now two other questions
1) if nothing with teeth moves, can I just install the new belt in the same position as the old one?
2) If the rear cams are flat up and I have them locked down, do I need to remove those sprockets? Or just the front ones and move the front ones 180 out from the rear....actually, what I still need to know is why do I have to remove the sprockets, will the cams not turn with them installed like they do with the belt turning them?

[pocket-rocket]

Because it is hard to time it perfectly without the cam gears freewheeling to let all of the slack out. The rear exhaust cam is always a huge pain for people with the lock rings (91-93) as you cannot get that gear off with the cam gear puller unless you feel that hacking into the strut tower, or pulling the rear cam carrier off is no big deal. I will admit, I have done it without pulling the rear exhaust cam gear and got the other 3 to freewheel. It isn't ideal, but it can be done that way and still run fine. Besides, if the belt has stretched enough that it's given the same amount of play as jumping a tooth, your engine will still be out of time with the new belt. Pulling the pulleys assures you that you start at a good known "0 point".

[ronniels]

Sometimes you wantt o find the last person that worked on the car you are currently working on and just smack 'em!

I hope there is no timing belt stretch. I just got this car a couple of weeks ago, pulled the inspection cover and saw alot of fuzzies so felt it best to replace the belt, pulleys, etc.

Have it torn down, belt and pulleys off...here is what i found. Everything looks brand new. The pulleys and tensioner are shiny and clean, the belt was perfect except that it had started to ide out of it's groove causing the edge to get rough, therefore the fuzzies. Everything was nice and tight and even except the two bolts holding the accuator were both equally just barely finger tight therefore allowing it to not hold enough tension which is probably why the belt was walking.

My dilema is whether to keep my new pulleys in there wrappers and hold and re-use the barely used Dayco ones. Or go ahead and put my new ones on. They look and feel great. The white out is still on the crank damper from the previous installation.

Opinions?

[pocket-rocket]

If everything was tight with the exception of the actuator, then the pulleys are fine and replacing them is not going to fix the belt walk. I've grown used to seeing belt walk on mine I know how you feel about the whole person before you on the car thing. The guy that I bought my car from left all sorts of stuff under tightened. Things like starter power wire which made the battery light come on at high rpms, suspension bolts in the rear, making the once round holes in the rear frame that the lateral control arms hook to go oblong from the lat. arms walking from take offs and stops. I ended up changing the alternator for no reason because of the wire, and luckily I am parting out my 91 so I have a new frame for the rear suspension to fix that. So yeah, I know all too well how you feel...

[ronniels]

Both Intake Cams the sprocket bolts were not bad, but both exhaust cam sprocket bolts will not budge..any secret?

BTW: I do have the complete Kent Moore kit with the sprocket puller

[pocket-rocket]

That is a good thing (about the Kent Moore kit, I have to steal Ben's...) My secret is my 2 foot 1/2" breaker bar, and sometimes if need be put a pipe on it for leverage, or if you have a really good impact, go to it. Just don't use it on the pulley puller if its 91-93 as we found that it will mess up the puller and do a number on cams. I have yet to see a cam pulley bolt break thankfully.

[ronniels]

That's what I wanted to check first, They should come off like the other two? So more force is o.k. then...won't hurt the Cam hold down tool?

Thanks!

[pocket-rocket]

I meant to say before don't use the impact on the pulley puller. Yeah, go ahead and honk down like no ones business on them. Just make sure someone has a good hold on the ratchet that the pulley holding tool is on so you don't strip out your cam hold down bolt holes. Usually at this step either Ben or I would hold work one ratchet while the other worked the other ratchet and we never had any problems. It would be difficult to try to put tons of force on one ratchet while trying to hold the other still, unless you rested the one on the pulley holder tool on something solid so you could do it solo.

[ronniels]

Cool, I'll do that....Can figure out someway to wedge the second ratchet
Thanks again! (Plus, I'll torque them correctly when re-installing them as well)

[ronniels]

OK, had to put things up last week in hurricane prep...threat has been gone for a couple of days...my 1st day off, so I dug in to get this beauty put back togeter.

My original question was why do I need to loosen the sprockets, and more importantly can I leave the rear ones alone. After putting the tensioner pulley on with the rear sprockets tight and needing that one half of one notch of movement to get the bolt started...I now understand...It's on, I said a lot of bad words...I am inside cooling down in the A/C, but the tensioner pulley is on...

I logged on o Alldatapro's website and a revised GM bulletin gives timing info with having the rear cams tightened and no hold down with the front one held down with loose sprockets. I was so happy to find that, everything else I have found so far has said loose rear sprockets with tight fromt sprockets.
I have a 93, so I have the lock rings. Even after getting the bolts loose on the rear sprockets, there is no way for the sprocket puller (from Kent Moore 3.4 DOHC Kit) would fit between the sprocket and the strut housing.

Oh well...off to finish the job...fun-fun-fun!!!

Plus, I have the new idlers and tensioner in the wrappers from Gates for sale.