Ran Rough now cranks but no start..

[RedZMonte]

So i Drove the car home sat. night and parkd it. Monday i got in it to go to work and it ran ROUGH, Spuddering and almost dying. then the Check engine light came on and was flashing. Last night i pulled the code. Only 1 code (I think it was) P0300 -multiple missfire code. Then i cleard the code w/ a code reader and now it will not start. it will crank but not fire. I do smell gas, I pulled the front plugs and they where black but not to bad, and i checkd 1 plug and i have spark. This morning i saw a puddle wich appears to be fuel under the passanger side rear of the engine (about where the pass rear subframe craddle bolt is). Also i have noticed for the last week or 2 it has been taking a few seconds of cranking before it would start.

Any ideas where i should start checking from this point? fuel pressure gauge? If i have a fuel leak large enough to make a large puddle on the floor im guessing it would have not enough pressure to run, am i correct in assuming this? what would be on the rear passanger side of the engine that would leak enough to lose that much fuel/pressure?

Thanks in advance
S

[RedZMonte]

well i decided to tear into the fuel system a little. Got the upper plenum amlso off and when i lookd in the intake pipe i see more fuel running down the intake.... WTF??? Then i try and take the throttle cables off and as soon as i open the throttle plate... NOAH's Arc was needed!!! My upper intake plenum is Completly FULL of fuel! I mean its pouring out...

So i took a smoke break!

FPR? Bad/leaky Injector? any idea's? once i can drain the UIM i will get a good look at the fuel rail.

S

[d.o.h.c]

Shane,
The only thing that I can see being wrong is the FPR. There is no other way for fuel to get into the plenum. The only other thing that can get into the plenum would be oil, not much, and thats caused by blow by. What I would do it take the fuel pressure regulator out and replace it, cause thats the only thing that makes sense. The FPR does exactly what its says, it regulates the fuel from the pump, other wise you would have wayyyy to much fuel pressure to the injectors. There is a vacuum port on the FPR that helps regulate the fuel pressure. I am almost 90% sure thats the problem. Pull the hose on the FPR and see if there is fuel in it, if there is even the slightest hit of gas, its time to replace. And yes to answer your question about it pulling fuel. If ther FPR goes out, then its going to suck the fuel through the vacuum port and not give any to the injectors. Also I bet what happened is, when it was going bad, the computer was compensating for the lack of fuel and when you cleared the code, it was confused to why there was no fuel. Bottom line, I think its the FPR.

[pocket-rocket]

My upper intake plenum is Completly FULL of fuel! I mean its pouring out...

So i took a smoke break!

Hopefully it was away from the car, :P I agree with D.O.H.C. What he said I have heard happen, and it makes perfect sense about the FPR leaking fuel into the vacuum lines.

[RedZMonte]

So the FPR is toast. Repalced it. What a Fukn Mess!!!! fuel everywhere!

It no longer dumps fuel everywhere, got the intake empty and draind a few vac lines. Now i have a few rubber vac lines that need replaced they swelled up and turned mushy from the fuel. What a PITA!! I drained the oil and HOLLY COW there was a ton in the oil pan. i almost overflowed my oil pan it was so full when i draind it.

Now with my new regulator, fresh oil/filter and dry plenum and vac lines it still cranks but will not start..... What should i check next? I primed the fuel pump about a dozen times to make sure the lines and the fuel rail was full of fuel again. no codes, no funny noises and not even trying to start just cranks. Im stumpd.

my roomate (honda guy) told me to do the "honda reboot"... unhook the that batter and let set for a few. I havnt done so yet. worth a try tho..

S

[d.o.h.c]

That never seems to work for me. Only thing I can think of is the spark plugs might be fouled out. Pull the plugs out, atleast in the front and see if they smell like fuel. If so let them dry and try starting the car. I am almost betting that when it dumped all the fuel into the motor it caused the plugs to get fucked. There is only so many things it can be. You know its has fuel in the fuel rail, I would just check to make sure its hold with a fuel PSI gauge. One you know thats fine then go to the next secerao(sp), which would be a code, like a crank sensor, and you have none. Then spark. You said that you get spark, but you dont know if that spark is getting put out by left over fuel in the combustion chamber. I would pull the plugs and also smell inside the chamber. If it smells like fuel then I would deffinietly look into the plugs. Other than that, I would say injector, but you have new injectors in there so I doubt its that. Good luck and let us know any updates.

[RedZMonte]

i will try a new set of plugs.... if that don't work she's goin up for sale.

[d.o.h.c]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, then who will I call all the time,lol.

[d.o.h.c]

I'll do more research tonight after my class. Right now I have a test and a fuckin speech, I hate fuckin school it sucks.

[RedZMonte]

Would there be any sensor that would go bad if it came in contact with fuel?

All of them i can think of near the plenum
* MAP
* TPS
* IAC
* MAF
* Brake Booster (hose connectos from intake)
* Transmission Vac thingy (hooks to the other hard vac line to intake plenum)

On a good note the inside of my plenum looks to be clean as hell!

[pocket-rocket]

I don't know what's inside of a MAP sensor, but it might not like fuel. It could be fine though, so it's hard to say. I know they say not to clean your MAF with brake/carb cleaner, but you would most likely had to open the throttle to get fuel on the MAF. And a "Honda Reboot" only works on OBD1.

[RedZMonte]

Mmm I wonder if i have a buch of fuel in my charge pipes.... If anything i think it would run down to my Intercooler... Something else to check. I dont think it has enought room to pool up any where else... but maybe its full and im not getting air to the engine..

S

[RedZMonte]

I did use a generic OBDII scanner and i am getting a MAF reading... Hope that helps.

is their anything i could have forgot to hook back up when reinstalling the plenum that would case it not to start? I know the TPS/IAC/MAF/MAP are all hooked up. i will scan it again to see if i have any new codes. if i forgot one of them or something it would throw a code right?

S

[RedZMonte]

im going to try swapping plugs based on a couple reliable sources they could be sparking but still shot.

S

[pocket-rocket]

They don't call it fuel fouling for nothing. I would think that big sensors (not in the physical sense, but ones heavily relied on by the ECM) would throw a code if it wasn't running. Things like MAP, MAF and the like. Ones that are needed but the engine can run without like the IAT, CTS wouldn't throw a code until the engine was running for a while. It's like the van I worked on a while back. The ECM was setting a code for the EGR having insufficient flow, but the EGR was fine. I ran the thing down the street about a mile or so after buttoning it back up and idling it for about 10-15 minutes to burp the coolant. Then I plugged in my OBD2 scan tool and didn't get a single code. After a day or so of them driving it, the engine light popped on. Sure enough the EGR was one of the problems, besides a coil pack that had gone bad (but only tripped a misfire code). So I took the plenum off and cleaned all of the solid mass of carbon out of the tube from the EGR to the plenum out, and replaced the coil and now it hasn't given them a bit of trouble since. Geeze man. All that to say not all things set codes right away...