Multiple ECU operation

[95SleeperAcheiva]

OK, here's my dilemma. 1995 Olds Achieve, I want her running before the summer is gone so I'm trying to slap her together.

First, She's getting a bone stock Aurora 4.0L V-8, complete with harness and stock ECU. I've considered an ECU from 1997, maybe '99 for the reflash option, my thinking in this is attempting to hook up a Tech 2 scan tool from Vertronix which, as I've been told, is capable of allowing me to set the parameters, ie rev limiter, top end, emissions elimination, mixture tuning and timing, etc...
Anyway, I did some research and even went as far as bolting up a 4T60E to the 4.0 on a stand to see how they would fit, damn is this going to be tight in the car!
Here's my problem, the tranny can't be controlled by the stock aurora ecu, or atleast I think it can't. The stock aurora trans was a 4T80, my stock trans is a 4T60E, and the 4t80 wont fit with the motor. So If i can get the aurora ecu to run the shifting on the 4t60e, if someone knows how, they can stop reading here and set me in the right direction. I have full access to all wiring diagrams and such so making it work shouldn't be a problem. If the stock aurora ecu can't run the 4t60e then here is my next idea.

Hook up the ecu for the aurora to run injection and ignition and hook up the acheiva ecu to run the tranny. My thinking is the acheiva ecu would only need sensor info from speed sensor right? '95 acheiva comp should be old enough to only monitor speed for shifting right? I hope so. Again if this is possible, point me in the right direction.

Last option, yank the 4t60e, install old school 4t60, and then hope the aurora ecu doesn't have a fit over no trans control, also apply the possible ecu fit to all other options above.

I'm ignoring the stick option, I can't afford the damn thing,......yet.
I can make fab, install, re-wire and wedge just about anything, i realize that some of what I'm attempting is fairly advanced and "off the wall." But, you wouldn't be reading this on this sight if every one of you weren't "off the wall" yourselves! Also, yes its Oldsmobile, I'm a die hard rocket nut, but it is DOHC on the forum, I still drive a Z-34 Monte Carlo everyday, and the 4.0L is a DOHC, atleast its GM, and last but not least, all of your valve trains are Oldsmobile anyway! We share the same lifters and the design is just so similar to a Quad 4 it ain't funny. (Little friendly Olds---> chevy rib poking there :P)

Thanks for any help.

[IsaacHayes]

You can probably use your 95 ECU to control the trans, as long as it has enough sensor inputs to not run in limp mode or something. You probably need MAP signal, and TPS at least as well as the VSS so that it knows when to downshift, and how long to wind out, etc. Use this also for the the speedo feed for the gauges. That should be all the sensors it needs to determine load, pedal position, speed, etc. Keep the RPM feed to it as well. (maybe it uses the crank trigger to tell RPM, not sure) You probably need the CTS hooked up as well because I know if it's too cold the ECU will not lock up the TC on the highway until the trans gets to a certain temp.

Then for the engine, I honesty think running a megasquirt on top of the stock ECM/PCM/ECU whatever would be best. The aurora one will probably freak out not seeing a trans and might run in limp mode as well, not giving your full power. Torque abuse settings probably will be kicked in since OBDII has sensors for trans slippage, etc and it could pull timing.

The MS uses it's own MAP you can hook up easy enough to another port, hook up another CTS. Tap off the RPM feed from the ICM (pin C, wire it in if not there) (unless it reads the crank trigger only for RPM, which it will need for spark control). You can share the TPS signal I believe. Only one you can't share is the CTS.

So by running both I think with enough sensors the stock ECM will control your trans and speedo fine. And with MS you can fine tune the engine as well. May take a bit longer to get a good tune built up, but you don't have to worry about getting something to fully unlock and edit the ECM so that the engine runs at full power.

[1988GTU]

Why not use the fast controller and then use MS for the engine?

[IsaacHayes]

Cause you can probably keep the stock OBD1".5" ECM happy enough to shift the trans like normal with enough sensors going to it, and save money and time tuning the fast controler. But that is an option as well.

You will need the stock ECM for speedometer signal conversion for the gauges regardless.

[1988GTU]

I thought MS had an option for VSS? Guages are easy, direct wire them to each gauge unless OBastardD1.5 requires it to change signal to a readable input/output.

[IsaacHayes]

Tach, leave alone it gets a feed from the ICM. Same for coolant temp, fuel, oil pressure, and voltage.

The Speedometer is the only thing that needs a signal from the ECM (converts the pulses to what the gauge can understand) on OBD1/1.5.

MS for some reason can't supply the right conversion for the speedometer. Or at least that's what a guy on V6Z24 ran into. He just ended up using the stock ECM for speedometer output.

[95SleeperAcheiva]

Isaac, have you used an MS? Is this going to allow me the 3-d fuel maps i've seen in other tuning software that a certain "friend" of ours sent me once? $400 for the MS sounds great compared to the $1600 Holley commander option I was considering.

Also, I looked at the wiring diagram for the stock acheiva trans controls, your right about the ECT, maybe i can add a 2nd ect for the other ecu to read or something.
Why do i get this feeling that no matter what i do this ain't going to be running till spring '09?
And your right, i got to run the MS or something like it, i polished the heads and removed emissions, my mixture is going to be way off of stock and without trans inputs from the 4T80 it ain't got, she'll go right into limp mode.

[IsaacHayes]

I haven't used one yet. You can even build one for like 150 or so using the version 1 and mod it to control spark. There is a thread on v6z24.com about it.

Yeah I think you can get the OBD1.5 to run the trans fine as long as it has the right sensors still hooked up, and then MS it for the engine. If I ever get serious about my engine I plan to do the same. Either to get the last bit of HP out of the original 3100 (that's been modded) or for a whole big engine swap.

[v6richie]

Not familiar with the 4T60E, I'm looking for schematics on line now. But if all it takes is ground or 12volts to make it shift up or down, use paddle shifters. Now you wont have the automatic up/down shifting concept, you will have to make those up/down shifts on your own, but thats half the fun. I'm sure its a combination of different input signals on the connector to put the trans into the proper gear. This may be what the stand alone trans controllers are doing.

[IsaacHayes]

Someone on v6z24.com did that as well, with a ratchet shifter and 4T65-E. And another switch to lock up the torque converter. You can do it that way if you wanted to or never had an ECM that could control the trans to begin with. But here I think it would be easier to just leave the stock ECM hooked up along with the stock sensors, and just throw on an extra CTS for the MS and be done.

[95SleeperAcheiva]

Isaac, I looked into a MS really close. I downloaded the programming software too, WOW! Some of the settings look like or reference too OBD2.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but GM injectors do fire 1 at a time right? The MS says it fires them per bank, so in my V-8 thats 3 injectors firing that don't need too, or 3 times an injector fires for every 1 time its needed. Waste of fuel? Possible fuel pooling in intake runners? I always thought the 3.1's/3.4's fired each injector like timing, not the whole bank. I can see, from looking at the tuning variables and settings, even for initial running of the motor, I really got a lot to learn. I've been a professional mechanic for 17 years, I've owned 2 of my own shops, built countless cars, and i don't understand half of what it's asking me to program. I'm not saying I can't learn it or that i don't want too, it's just a very humbling experience to suddenly find out I don't know as much as I thought I did. MS is defiantly not for your average motorhead. Now I see why stupid crap like hypershit and and the other crap reprogrammers are stuck to only letting you do the basic reprogramming options, cause there is tons you can screw up. Keeps them from being liable.
So when I buy this MS, feel like coming over and tuning this whore? :P

[bszopi]

All 60V6s (and probably all GM engines in general) are batch fire at some point. The 3.1MPFI engines were batch fire at all times. With the release of the 3100 SFI, the engines went to sequential firing of the injectors (one at a time), but only up to a certain RPM. Once you go to higher RPMs, they go back to batch fire.

[IsaacHayes]

If you pay for gas I'll come over.. :P And by gas I mean mine to drive there LOL

Yeah after 2500 I think (someone said that #) it goes into batch fire or MPFI mode. the older 3.1/2.8 where always batch fire. fires one bank(side) at a time.