Contact Info for Ben @ WOT TECH

[supertweet]

Hello all and Ben specifically,

I was wondering if you had a public phone number you might share, and if not would be willing to PM me contact info. I emailed a several weeks back and again last week, and haven't yet heard from you (understandable with a small business.)

We are in the midst of a complete Volvo 1800E resto, and are nearing the point in which we require an engine. We used a decrepit 2.8 v6 out of a Celebrity for mockup/subframe purposes, and now want to work out and order the actual engine.

I'd like to discuss with you engine sourcing, upper-induction porting, camshaft, and exhaust requirements; we'll be using the LX9.

Spending over a year reading the forums has been nice, but I'd like to speak to you specifically about my application, moving around my power band, perhaps a custom-ground camshaft due to compression and exhaust particulars, etc.

If not possible to speak over the phone, please let me know and I'll be happy to try emailing you again. Feel free to email/PM; I'd be happy to send you my phone number if more comfortable that way. Thanks for your participation on the forum.

Regards,

Jeff

[SappySE107]

No, we don't use a public number, though John's number is probably the most known. I don't like using the phone so I usually don't share it. Even when I do, I won't answer unless I know the number calling me. What email did you use? Did I reply to any? Email is the best way to contact me, sales, support, admin, and ben at wot-tech.com all go to me. John has his own plus I forward any bmw stuff to him as well.

This forum is also a good place to discuss your build, unless you need to keep it a secret:P Lots of knowledge and experience on this site.

[Superdave]

I have Ben's number, paypal me $5 and i'll PM it to you.. lol

[SappySE107]

haha, damnit!

[3400-95-Modified]

I have Ben's number, paypal me $5 and i'll PM it to you.. lol

$5 to leave Ben a VM... not sure if it's worth it.

[Superdave]

meh... you could always send him random text messages.

[SappySE107]

now we're talkin! i mean txting

[ForcedFirebird]

HA! I'm usually the slow one answering emails.

In the near future, my phone will become the WOT-Tech contact number and will be getting a new phone for personal use.

[supertweet]

Hi all,

It's like an old boys' club here

I emailed via your website's link; I didn't see a response, but as mentioned it's understandable if you guys are busy, and there is a chance any response might have hit my Spam filter.

I'm happy to discuss via email my project, requirements, and ask questions, but thought my email-novel might be a bit much.

Would you guys prefer PM, email, or posts here? Whatever works is fine. I'll prep something after work today

Thanks guys.

Jeff

[SappySE107]

If public is fine, then here works just as well as anything. Store contact page worked for me so I don't understand where your messages went

[supertweet]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the late response; weddings, vacations, and so on.

I'm thinking the Stage II Intake and Cylinder head porting, with the valve job, proper valvetrain components for a camshaft to be determined.

I'm assuming you're hand porting, as a CNC program is likely cost-prohibitive for this engine and demographic? Is there any runner-equalization or port reshaping, or is it more burr removal and smoothing of the tracts? Have you taking flow figures at various lifts?

I've seen some flowbench numbers of both heads and intakes from stock and various distributors (dubious, granted), and it seems that with the combined runner length of the intake/heads, velocity isn't too much of a concern on these engines (N/A street car); it's more exhaust flow that's a limitation... is this correct? If so...Split duration, reverse split lift, narrow lobes on a medium LSA, fast ramp rates? Ruminating on camshafts for my application.

Okay, so my project is intended as a daily/weekend driver, no track time save for initial suspension tuning; curvy backroads and the Better Half to dinner stuff.

Am hoping to emulate a Grand-Touring classic sports experience; think Ferrari 330GTC, 911S, Alfa 115 GTC, BMW 3.0CS. Essentially, a car with racing heritage, but slightly civilized for road use. My suspension components are now sorted, and am looking for proper engine "behavior." I'd like more RPM range and "raciness" than the stock minivan engine, but not temperamental like a serious power build.

Essentially, I want an engine with sufficient torque to pull a long 1st gear (2.95 first, 3.27 to 3.55 final drive on a 25" tire) for that classic feeling, short-ratio'd 2-3-4, .68 overdrive 5th. Powerband through 6k RPM, good throttle response. No extensive valvetrain wear.

A slight idle chop would be appreciated due to the 60V6's somewhat agricultural standard exhaust note, but I require good vacuum and the aformentioned throttle response. Engine responsiveness/drivability is very important in this project, followed by sound (mechanical, analogue), then max power.

Estimated car weight will be conservatively 2700 lbs wet, and ultimate power not a concern. Figure 200 lbs/ft by 2500 RPM, say peak figures of 250 lbs ft/250-270 Hp at the flywheel being sufficient.

We've mocked up a 60V6 already, and will have room for decent long tube headers, fairly equal primaries, horizontal stepped collectors, so exhaust isn't an issue.

Please feel free correct me on any 60v6 impressions I've gotten wrong; I'm obviously inexpert in general, and with these engines in particular. Local builders don't experiment with domestic equipment save for the V8's, so the interwebs are my sole source of info.

If you'd like to recommend a package for me, please do. I'd also greatly appreciate reasonings, and specs are always welcome. I'd like to have the engine built by January, as I'd like final sorting and first drives by the end of that month.

Thanks,

Jeff

[SappySE107]

They are ported by hand and yes, flownumbers are known. Not just port it, send it in to test. This is R&D using a flowbench to come up with what we have (the best). We can design the camshaft using dynomation as well, because we have all of the numbers to accurately simulate the camshafts. Lobes are speced per every 2 degrees in each file. Its awesome and has been pretty damn consistent.

Stage 2 sounds good, with a strip cam. There are quite a few variations on the cam we can do, but the strip cam is what I would use for what you describe as desired. Idle chop depends on your tuning, or we can lose some power for it if you want to help but the tune is still important for this.

[supertweet]

Thanks for the response, Ben.

Sounds good; a few questions/comments if I may...

-Very good on dynomation; I played with wave dynamics years ago, but never in detail. Do you cam doctor your profiles also? If so, I'd like the cam card once we select a profile to match the rest of the order.

"Idle chop depends...we can lose some power for it if you want to help..." Can you clarify what you meant here? The "chop" I wanted wasn't lope per se, just some mechanical noise; got it with timing event manipulation and fueling. What exactly is "lose power"? Lazy cylinder filling? If so, no please

-I'll also be requiring some odds and ends for the longitudinal/RWD setup, so I can either email, PM, or post here; let me know what's best.

-Compression; I don’t want to order custom pistons, but will if forced. My motor must run CA 91 gas happily on a conservative tune. How happy are your profiles on the stock 9.8 static?

-Conservative tune merely means I'm not going to lean AFR or tweek timing to eek every last ounce of power; I don't care about peak numbers and want a driveable motor.


-The "Strip" cam as listed on site notes power loss off idle. That's fine, but I assume it comes with a sluggardly throttle response as well, correct? XFI lobes with a bunch of overlap?

I'm concerned about an off-the-shelf grind for me; I'm sure the Strip is wonderful, but am happy to pay for a custom grind if I can garner the exact behavior I want. I've only played with 2 pushrod-engined camshaft builds (5.0 Mustang w/ the horrible E-303 in the mid 90's & a custom FTI job for an LS1 Datsun a few years back), and in my limited experience their manipulation of valve events dramatically changed the engine behavior.

IF you deem the Strip cam perfect, I'd like detailed specs (cam card would be nice) before purchase.

I have some bench numbers on your ported heads/intake, but if you'd like to share these, either in public or post-purchase, that'd be fine. I've signed enough NDA to know the drill.

Sorry if being neurotic here, but I've driven in ridden in many cars with "Piper hot" or "Stage 3" cams that are terribly matched for the intended usage despite “Stage matching” or whatever, and would like to minimize that scenario as much as possible.

You obviously have intake tract volume/velocity data, and now a rough idea of end-user desired-behavior and gearing, you're likely going to need exhaust configuration as well? Feel free to recommend ideal exhaust, as mentioned we thought w/ the decent .500 flow #’s I’ve seen out of online data (ugh), This engine’s pretty efficient intake vs exhaust, so we were thinking 15/8" primaries to stepped 3.5" to 3" collectors is appropriate. Scavenging should be good, so rest of exhaust is irrelevant.

I’d also like to know upon cam spec finalization and order what lobes you’re using.

-Finally, I assume you want me to order via the WOT-Tech site's email, no? I’d be happy to place a phone order as well (old school trust type thing). I’d even consider flying out (Fla according to your site) to talk and be given a tour.

Again, apologies, you must know by now I’m wordy and particular about crap, but I’m also willing to learn, and you guys seem to be the experts on 60V6 behavior; I’d like to learn, then buy once.

Thanks,

Jeff

[SappySE107]

I think you would be surprised by how we rate our parts. Our race cam is something you could run and love for your application. Strip cam has no ill behavior. Just less power down low, but throttle response isn't killed because we don't have to crutch anything on these engines to make it work. Splayed valve heads with awesome flow compared to 1980s non wankle/dohc stuff, great rod/stroke ratio, heart shaped chamber, 60V6 design by itself vs 90V6...GM did most of the work for us and its our job to just simply not fuck that up. Everyone else tries too hard and that's exactly what you are describing. Tuning goes a long way on sound. Id have to say that if you want some chop with a reason, we need more compression and can sort out the cam because the strip cam is really not a lope/chop kind of cam. Maybe a video Jason's cutlass would help sort out what you are looking for. (read below on the little thumper cam tuning...im editing this cause im drinking beer and trying to be coherent...professional?)

1 5/8 is great. 3" is not. 2.25 out of each side on the 3 to 1 collector and then you can X pipe it or H pipe or whatever you want. Our shop is in Florida, but I am in Indiana working at JP Machine and doing WOT-Tech engine builds/parts out of this location. Its weird I suppose, but it started in Indiana and went to Florida where John (Forced_Firebird) and I started a shop to work on the cars themselves. Turns out, no one has a 60V6 but the BMW stuff keeps us busy. I came back up here in July because the machine shop I used for years finally moved and there is a great opportunity for someone that ports heads (me) here. If my bench was here and working, id have numbers on so much stuff now.... So anyway, kind of side tracked there but if you go to Florida, you would see lots of BMW and John, which is cool cause he knows a lot about 60V6s and we discuss everything anyway. Hopefully ill make it back down sometime this winter (was the plan).

The chop I was talking about was overlap, which is going to reduce power overall. Im working on a tune for a guy running our Little Thumper cam so he would be the best to explain the difference between a street cam and the comp Thumpr lobes that we chose (that won't ruin the car or be difficult to tune. Still working on that cause its long distance tuning but im surpised how easy it has been. After doing some higher compression/big cam that idles at 60kpa...this is cake. 60-100 kpa to work with means no resolution to the tune...god that is such a PITA, especially on the accel enrichment.

Back to the cam. Our street/strip cam behaves just like stock, idles smooth, and pulls past 6k no problem. We use the strip cam in our stage 2 build. Street/Strip is also what I consider stage 2 material so its only a slight powerband difference depending on what the customer is seeking. We have 5 "shelf cam" options! haha, and 0 are so radical that they would be crap in a stock motor minus pushrods/springs.


I guess we just need to talk on the phone sometime. I hated phones (i still dislike using them) but at this shop, I answer the damn phone every day so....I guess.... Its just psychological. Lost business over not using the phone. You better give me your number via PM so I can have it in my phone. I don't answer if I don't know who you are. Personal number anyway so don't give my number out!

RWD specific stuff is more of a John deal too, cause im the FWD guy and he is the RWD guy. Did I mention 60V6s are mostly FWD:P Im not a complete dumbass on the RWD specific stuff to convert but this thread is as good as it gets. I still ask questions and use this site to learn so what the hell.

God that was long. Normally id delete this and make it better but I guess its time to throw it out there.

[supertweet]

Great, will send contact info via PM. Honestly though, no biggie if not a phone guy; we can do this via forum then email. It's just more time-consuming to get type out than over phone, but no hassle on my end if you like reading novels.

-Good, drinking beer; we all deserve breaks.
-BMW... I'm an old Formula Renault guy, and once had the opportunity to hear the M12 F1 engine at full chat. According to an old Arrows engineer I'm familiar with, they actually did use "seasoned" M10 4 cylinder blocks (like 318 BMW production blocks)... hearing that sucker roar around Goodwood in a Brabham BT-55 was pretty fricking amazing. You think you see a lot of BMW's... I live in San Francisco. And yes, I have an E90 wagon for daily dog transport/Costco. ... Head hanging in shame...

I thought I'd mentioned it, the car's a Volvo 1800S; replacing my fun car with something classic, hence RWD. I'd think w/ a 60 degree banked-V6 and proper headers I wouldn't need a crossover exhaust, but you're the expert.

Will send info now, and if you'd prefer I speak to Jon because of application, I'll happily do so. As to your customer using the Little Thumper, I'd happily talk to him as well.

And, if it's truly beneficial to spend some time in Fla, and Jon's good with it, I'd happily book the appointment. This car's a labor of love, from Dad, but I'm also a picky jerk since it's replacing my 996... I want things done properly, and that means going with the experts. You guys are it.

Have a good weekend, talk soon.

Jeff