57k Mile LX9 Alero [[swap]]

[slowalero]

Hey fellow GM nerds, yet another FWD swap going on here on the message boards. Here's the deal. Bought a '99 Alero (LA1) w/164k in October from a friend for $700, a month later it gets plowed in the rear by a sleepy Puerto Rican @ 40. No brakes.

Gieco wrote me a $2500 check and sold me my totaled car back for $175. Then another month later, a fat ass deer ran into my driver's door. Drive it everyday, has 190k miles. GM pride.

So I spent the insurance money on an '01 Alero w/57k miles that was litteraly driven by an old lady to church.

However, grandma didn't see regular oil changes necessary, and her son in law showed me all THREE oil change receipts after he sold it to me for $2000 cause the 3400 knocked like two skeletons......well you know the rest.

After careful disassembly, extensive research, and several shot down plans, a 3.5L swap was decided upon.


eBay yeilded me a 33k mile LX9 from an '05 Malibu in RI for $400 & 90 day warranty. Sold. So now it sits on a stand in my shop. Mildly stripped and prepped for an N-body.

Milzy Motorsports manufactuers a lot of necessary parts to make this "Gen. IV" 60° jive with the chassis developed for the 3400. Harness adapters, transaxle mount, TBC adapters, a/c compressor adapter, TCE 3500 crank trigger conv., and PCM flash just to get it started.

[mickaz]

pics are a must if you make a build thread!

[HOYS]

Sounds like you had one tough N-Body!

Good choice on doing the LX9 swap, you've got a good car to put it into!

I'm doing my LX9 swap here within a few weeks into a Grand Am. I'm using Milzy's swap kit too. Only difference is I'm using the internal trigger made by TCE instead of the external trigger.

[slowalero]

pics are a must if you make a build thread!

Sorry about the delay in pics, I tried to attatch them that night but was having some troubles.

Sounds like you had one tough N-Body!

Good choice on doing the LX9 swap, you've got a good car to put it into!

I'm doing my LX9 swap here within a few weeks into a Grand Am. I'm using Milzy's swap kit too. Only difference is I'm using the internal trigger made by TCE instead of the external trigger.

You have no idea! That thing's a champ. I use it as a pick up truck now. Hauls garbage, delivers parts. Must have been a good day on the assembly lines!

An internal trigger huh? I was not aware of such product. I found a few honest shortcuts that may not require me to use MMS' swap kit, or at least some of the pieces, such as swapping my 3400 oil pan for the level sensor retention, relooming the 3400 injector harness using the MAP/CTS parts of the 3500, and the transaxle bracket off the 3500 seems to line up on the 4T45E too. From all the reading I've done about the a/c alignment issues, it sounds like MMS' a/c compressor spacer is necessary as well.

However, I stacked 1/2" of washers at the corners under the 3500 plenum to mock MMS' aluminum spacers. I like the concept of the plenum spacers a little better than the relocating bracket for the FPR. It seems I would have to extened a fuel line for it all to work. Plus the spacers may serve as some benefactor by increasing torque via longer runners. Maybe not, maybe I'm totally wrong. So with some minor grinding, the complete stock 3400 fuel system w/28# inj. can be utilized. Some "modifying" of the lines may have to be done to clear the 3500 CTS at the back of the head.

Here's a couple pics. Still having problems getting everything I want up here. Got some ones of the popped 3400. It's nasty.
But these are the two cars of mine. One's really nice. One's not. It's actually gotten pretty rough throughout the winter, with the frost under the roads making harsh bumps. The spot welds are rattled a little bit now. She squeaks a bit.

[slowalero]

Ok, here's some more pics. The 3400 took a poop. Like I said, 3 oil changes in 57k miles. One receipt I saw had a service interval of 16k miles in 19 months. Yikes. But anyway, the bearings and pistons are from the rear two cylinders. Furthest from the oil supply. It's sludged up pretty bad too. It's nasty stuff. Feels like death between your fingers (in gloves).

But here's the 3500. Very clean inside. 33k miles from an '05 Mailbu. Strangely engough, Compnine.com says this donor car was completed on May 16th, 2004. I paypal'd it from eBay on May 16th, 2011. Ah.....the life of a car.

I got it mocked in the car now. Just a few tranny bolts and the 3400 front cover mount. Anothter hurdle. More on those later!

I also like the 3500's head casting numbers are "442". Going in an Oldsmobile gives it a little more cool factor for me. Idk, gives it some retro heritage.

[HOYS]

Sorry about the delay in pics, I tried to attatch them that night but was having some troubles.



You have no idea! That thing's a champ. I use it as a pick up truck now. Hauls garbage, delivers parts. Must have been a good day on the assembly lines!

An internal trigger huh? I was not aware of such product. I found a few honest shortcuts that may not require me to use MMS' swap kit, or at least some of the pieces, such as swapping my 3400 oil pan for the level sensor retention, relooming the 3400 injector harness using the MAP/CTS parts of the 3500, and the transaxle bracket off the 3500 seems to line up on the 4T45E too. From all the reading I've done about the a/c alignment issues, it sounds like MMS' a/c compressor spacer is necessary as well.

However, I stacked 1/2" of washers at the corners under the 3500 plenum to mock MMS' aluminum spacers. I like the concept of the plenum spacers a little better than the relocating bracket for the FPR. It seems I would have to extened a fuel line for it all to work. Plus the spacers may serve as some benefactor by increasing torque via longer runners. Maybe not, maybe I'm totally wrong. So with some minor grinding, the complete stock 3400 fuel system w/28# inj. can be utilized. Some "modifying" of the lines may have to be done to clear the 3500 CTS at the back of the head.

Here's a couple pics. Still having problems getting everything I want up here. Got some ones of the popped 3400. It's nasty.
But these are the two cars of mine. One's really nice. One's not. It's actually gotten pretty rough throughout the winter, with the frost under the roads making harsh bumps. The spot welds are rattled a little bit now. She squeaks a bit.

The internal trigger isn't listed for sale on any site yet. I chose to do it because I was thinking of doing the double roller timing chain in the future. Take the crank out now to have it modified for the DR:TC, might as well do the internal trigger. I live very close to TCE so this makes it very easy for me.

The 3400 oil pan does not 100% mate up to a 3500 block. I believe that either one or two of the bolt holes don't line up. I know people that have done the swap with the 3400 pan with no problems...so it shouldn't be the biggest issue. It looks like the trans. brace came with your LX9 from the junkyard. Not all JY's will keep the bracket on the engine. The problem you will most likely run into is that the bracket might not line up with the holes on the 3400 oil pan. The A/C spacer is needed. Some do the swap without the proper spacer, it works, but it is slightly "off".

You do not need to relocated the FPR to make it clear the LX9 upper intake. You would have to do a bit of grinding to the LX9 upper to make the FPR clear. You don't seem very performance oriented, so why don't you just keep the 3400 upper intake? You would not need the coil pack adapter brackets, or the MAP extension. Only *pressing* reasons to use the LX9 upper is to have the larger bore TB opening for a 65mm TB and having a better flowing intake. If you don't care about performance that much, why bother? You won't get the full capabilities of the LX9 without a 65mm TB (as they came stock with one, but unfortunately its drive by wire) or the better flowing intake.

[slowalero]

Well the thing is, performance is in mind. Peak power is the same with the 3400 UIM but yes, the 3500 gives a more broad range and the 68mm TB is my choice. No internals are being done yet but will have bolt on's, tune and open exhaust.

I'm not too worried about the oil pan/level sensor, I would just like it to work as originally designed.

I'm not disagreeing with you but with the UIM spaced 1/2" off the lower, I can fit it together with the rail loose which seems some grinding would allow the rest. My issue with PR bracket is the potential necessity for fuel line relocation. I would really like to kerp all the 3400 fuel system intact.

[boomofdoom88]

I did pretty much the same swap and I used the 3400 upper. Mostly for aesthetics and ease at the time. But I decided to keep it that way because it can be ported to allow a 65 mm throttle body and i beleive according to a few people on here it has a well balanced flow between cylinders and the 3500 upper favors the 2 closest to the throttle body. You would need to port match your 3500 lower a tad bit tho. WHen I was putting it all together I swore there was a difference and thought I was crazy... a 3500 lower with smaller ports than a 3400 no way! But its not much. Like a millimeter or so.

[slowalero]

So I tried to actually bolt the UIM on with the 3400 FPR secure, and with 1/2" spacers it makes the clearance issues worse. I should've taken the advice from more people, I DO need the FPR relocator bracket.

I don't know what the issue with the coil mount is, I'm assuming most folks are using the 3400 coil assembly on the 3500 and from what I've read, it will only bolt to the UIM or head studs. I think I'm going to try to reattach the 3400 coils on the 3500 bracket. Anyone done this?? Haven't looked at it too closely yet but I'm thinking some simple drilling will do the trick.

I removed the 3500 knock sensors and it seems like the 3400 sensor will thread into the block where it originally did. Is this the trendy thing for these swaps??

And I guess only ONE person was successful using the 3400 oil pan on the 3500? I read there was some clearance issues from the longer 3500 stroke hitting the pan, which lead me to believe that I can clearance it myself but according to the schematic, the oil level sensor looks like a simple switch so it seems I can just wire the sensor short to fool the PCM. Does this work??? Anyone try this????

[CNCguy]

The FPR relocation bracket should give you plenty of clearance.

Several customers and myself have modified the LX9 coil bracket for use with the older coils. I flatten the middle tab, then drill and tap the six mounting holes. It looks stock and is very strong. One customer did trim down the 3400 coil bracket and bolted it to the 3500 bracket. The coils set a little higher but nothing obvious.

Moving the knock sensor as you said is SOP.

[Joseph Upson]

The FPR relocation bracket should give you plenty of clearance.

Several customers and myself have modified the LX9 coil bracket for use with the older coils. I flatten the middle tab, then drill and tap the six mounting holes. It looks stock and is very strong. One customer did trim down the 3400 coil bracket and bolted it to the 3500 bracket. The coils set a little higher but nothing obvious.

Moving the knock sensor as you said is SOP.

I haven't bothered to inquire about it but one 3500 swapper on the Fiero forum has successfully wired the 3500 ignition coil pack to the standard 3 coil ignition module. That's helpful in that you can get the ignition module away from the heat easier and possibly make its longevity near infinite.

There's one catch, the thread left off with the car getting a ride home on a flatbed after the first test drive with the new motor. We're still waiting to find out what happened, otherwise it would be nice to use the later model equipment.

[HOYS]

Milzy Motorsports makes a Coil Pack Bracket relocation kit that will make your 3400 coil pack bolt up seamlessly to the 3500 upper.

[slowalero]

Ok, it's been a while since I did anything on here, nonetheless my Alero. But now's the time to start up again and I'm gonna feel out the issue on iridium plugs. As some may already know, sometihng like '03-'04 GM started using iridium tipped spark plugs in many engines. My 2005 3500 LX9 had iridium plugs. I since took them out and put them in my 3400 DD Alero. A friend of mine who I trust and has a lot of exoerience says on his VW, changing to iridium plugs in his 1.8T burned out coils. I dont wanna sound like that guy but it seems to make sense. The iridium plugs burn hotter requiring more energy from the coils. This is gonna make me want to use the LX9 coils and use MMS' harness adapter. Any thoughts?

[pocket-rocket]

Not to say your friend is full of it, but unless it happened more than once on more than one car I wouldn't buy it. The plugs themselves in design are no different than any other plug out there, the only difference is the metal used in the electrodes (and ground strap, I'm sure) to prevent wear. They aren't going to conduct electricity any more than any other plug because the resistance the coil sees is still a long section of plug wire and an air gap. The resistance of the wire isn't going to change between normal plugs and iridiums, and neither is the resistance of the air gap. I think it's coincidence that your friends coils crapped out on him.

Then again, this is only my opinion, and while I don't have an electronics engineering degree like Superdave I do have 4 years of electronics experience from high school, and who knows how many years turning wrenches.

[Z3500]

SuperDave is running those original plugs with no problems IIRC.