3500 Swap Finally Underway, a few questions

[jmgtp]

OK, then I will wire in the LX9 o2 sensor. Eliminates the issue of the connector and if I can run the heater off the egr +12v all the better. I got the mounts yesterday Marc, thanks again.

[jmgtp]

Had a cold which involved a lot of sneezing that in turn flared up my bad back so its been very slow progress.

I changed out the front exhaust manifold gasket, which required unbolting the a/c compressor and bracket to get to get the manifold off. The gasket was blown out on #6 and I could see the carbon residue on the exterior of the manifold. With the new gasket in it runs with much less 'noise' but there is some puttering at the rear manifold, which I believe to be the connection at the downpipe rather than the exhaust manifold gasket. It is a ball and cone type connection and I think the angle is a bit too great to seal correctly. There is some black residue around it so I know it is leaking, I just don't know if it is the only source of leak or if the rear manifold gasket needs to be replaced as well.

~30 days to get it running right and through emissions. The challenge is time and being in well enough health to get it done, I can't put in the long hours on it after working all day at a desk job like I used to.

[jmgtp]

Exhaust is DONE. I removed the downpipe, cut it, added about 1/2" of pipe and angled the neck down just a bit, welded up and she purrs nice and quiet now. I also wired in the LX9 o2 sensor, including heater (used the hot wire off the egr).

I fired it up briefly to see if it ran any better and it was hard to say. The tach held steady around 1200 rpm which seems about dead on given that my garage is right around 60 degrees. It doesn't sound perfectly smooth at idle and the car has a slight vibration to it. I do not have the dogbone mounts in yet so the vibration may just be the engine moving a bit more than it should. I didn't datalog it last night.

What's Left:
-I ran into an issue with the dogbone mounts. The bracket that bolts to the frame above the radiator is from a 97 lumina I believe. The issue is that the metal that surrounds the rubber drops down and doesn't clear the plastic radiator mount in the 91. Ideally, I think I need dogbones from a GenII motor, but the small stuff is really adding up $$$. So, I think I will trim the plastic to clear the mounts that I have. I also need to remove the thermostat housing to bolt the bracket to the cylinder head, which means draining coolant.

-Knock sensor, code 43 is haunting me. I am going to remove the sensor, check that the threads in the block are clean and torque it back down. Does anyone know the correct torque spec for the knock sensor? I can't seem to find it in my factory service manuals. My problem could be that it is torqued too tightly and picking up a lot of false knock.

-Need to find a 3" cone air filter or a 3100 airbox from a W car (before they moved the battery over to the passenger side). Again, issue here is that both of these things cost a lot of money so I've been hesitant.

-I have to figure out why the alternator is not charging. This I believe is an issue with the connector on it. The 91 alternator used a 2 wire connector, which if I recall correctly was a hot and a ground. The 97 alternator uses a 1 wire connector. The connector on the LX9 wire harness was correct for this alternator and I made the assumption that it must want +12v and grounds through the alternator chassis. So, if my logic is correct, I either wired in the wrong wire (the ground instead of the switched +12v) or something else is wrong. The alternator is used but I had it tested at a parts store to verify that it works.

-Need to hook up power steering lines.

If all else is right, after the above it needs the hood reinstalled, an alignment and hopefully some tuning.

[jmgtp]

I removed the knock sensor, cleaned the threads with steel wool, reinstalled, and it runs without code 43 now! So, all along it was a bad ground.

Now I need help with the alternator wiring!
The factory alternator in the 91 used a 2wire harness. From what I can see in the schematic in the service manual both are for the field. One in the run position, and one in the start position. The 97 3100 alternator I am using required a different different harness. Luckily the LX9 wire harness had an alternator harness that plugged in, however, it only had a single wire. So, I wired in the wire that his hot any time the key is in the run position. However, with the engine running the alternator does not charge.

The problem is that although the LX9 harness mates to the 97 alternator I don't know if the pin for the +12v is in the correct position on the harness for the 97 alternator. Further, it could be the case that the 97 alternator requires a hot on multiple pins. I don't know and I don't own any service manuals for a 97. Can anyone tell me which pin on the alternator needs +12v for the field?

Further to that, I removed the pin from the harness so that I could try it on any of the 4 alternator pins. I plugged the +12v pin onto each of the 4 pins in the alternator, starting the engine each time - it never charged. I confirmed the charge cable is tight and I do register the battery 12v on it. So either I have a bad alternator or the 97 alternator requires +12v on multiple pins in order to charge. So, I am looking for someone to confirm which pin or pins are used for the 97 3100 alternator. In the meantime I will remove the alternator and have it tested, though I had it tested about a year ago when I bought it and it tested good, it has sat in a box until now.

Your help appreciated!
thanks,
John

[robertisaar]

i'm looking at a 97 Cutlass Supreme 3100 diagram, and i'm only seeing 2 wires going to the alt, 1 is the charge wire, another comes from the PCM and goes to pin L for the turn-on input.

[jmgtp]

Thanks for the reply, pin L is the one I am powering.
I just bought a new (rebuilt) alternator and will bolt it in. I think it will do the trick.
The one I had looked very old and dirty, and when spun by hand the bearings made a good amount of noise. Its shot.

[jmgtp]

New alternator charges like a champ. Electrical including fuel injection is done!
I even installed 1 dogbone mount. Just some nuts and bolts left!

Go UConn!

[jmgtp]

Got the power steering lines installed last night and I ran the motor for about 5 minutes. I went lock to lock probably about a dozen times but the pump is still making a lot of noise and the fluid looks frothy in the reservoir. Not sure if I have a bad pump or just a lot of air.

The new alternator that I installed less than a week ago is already not charging. It charged perfect on Saturday when it went in and last night when I checked the gauges (it had been running a few minutes) no charge. I need to figure out if I have a wiring problem or a dud alternator.

And the only other remaining issue is that the motor is still running rough. I installed the dogbones and it no longer bounces around but you can still feel it a bit and it sounds rough. If its been sitting it will fire right up first try. It'll mainting a good cold idle speed (1200-1300). As the engine warms and the idle speed begins to come down you can hear the roughness. I let it idle for at least 5 minutes last night, and it would occassionally get really rough and sound like it was going to stall but then recover. If I rev the motor it wants to die as the revs come back down to idle and I have to manipulate the throttle to keep it alive. It I stall it out it is very difficult to restart, it requires a generous amount of throttle angle and about 3x the normal cranking time.

My only guess right now is the tune is way off or the tune does not like my 3.4 dohc injectors. I haven't datalogged it yet, but that is the next step. To me, it sounds like it is running too rich. I almost feel like when it stalls there is so much extra fuel in the cylinders that it struggles to relight. I am currently running the 3500 tune that I have. I may go back to the 3.4 dohc code and use that as a starting point instead. I do have a set of 3400 injectors, should I install them? The injectors I am using now are 3.4 dohc, and they worked perfectly in their original motor so I do not believe them to be faulty.

[pocket-rocket]

Froth in the power steering is from air. When I've changed a line I normally do the lock to lock about a dozen times and don't worry about the whine since it's gone in a couple days of normal driving. Where did you get the alternator? I've had nothing but bad luck with Autozone alternators. I would data log the idle some before guessing if injectors are causing your bad idle. Didn't you say some time back it was running rich enough to burn your eyes a while back?

[jmgtp]

Alternator is a rebuilt from Advanced. The power steering lines run right by the alternator connections so perhaps I josseled something loose. I need to check that I have battery voltage at the charge post and 12v on the connector for the field, if I meet both of those criteria then there isn't much left to it other than to pull it out and bring to the store to be tested.

It was running extremely rich when I first started it and it was a MAP sensor issue. That has since been resolved. Last night I also rewired and used the new style MAP - this time I got the wiring right and the new MAP works without a hitch.

It seems to run a bit rich now but not like before, at least it stays running now. When I give it some throttle it revs right up but then when I let off it wants to die out as it returns to idle. Marc mentioned something about this on the bin I am using and it might be a known problem. I'll datalog but I'm also going to try the dohc bin to see if it at least runs without stalling after a rev. It ran for about 5-6 minutes last night and I imagine in that time it made it to closed loop operation which didnt seem to help. The only way to know if it made it to closed loop is to datalog though.

the 3x00 airbox should be in today. Then I just need to get a buddy over to help me get the hood on before I can take it for a test spin, the car has some pretty old gas in it too that could possibly be part of the rough running problem. I'd guess its 6months old and I don't remember if I put stabilizer in it.

[pocket-rocket]

My wifes old T-bird that sat here for 3 years until I sold it recently had old gas in it and it idled fine after the first crank and start O.o I also drove the 91 around without a hood after the 5 speed swap wrapped up, but then again, it was also around 11PM, lol. On the gas note, you should be able to tell if it's ok by the smell if you let some out of the schrader valve into a rag.

[tkoforpresident]

careful with running your car too long if it really is that rich, you might foul your plugs and then your car won't even start, and you'll kill your battery & etc.

[jmgtp]

Well, its not quite THAT rich anymore. It was when I had the MAP sensor issue, but then it would only run for 10 seconds and die.

The alternator was a dud. I brought it back to the store for a replacement and it is charging good now. I installed the 3x00 W car air box and ran the car for about 10 minutes. It is running slightly better it seems. I identified a vacuum leak where the plastic vacuum line for the pcv connects. I heard it hissing so I spilled some water on it and sure enough I could hear it slurping the water. I shut it down, took the hold down bolt off and noticed that the plastic fit pretty loose in the manifold. I slapped some RightStuff on it and bolted it back down. That's where I left it for now. I'm working in short stints due to my back probs. One other thing I noticed is that there is still some exhaust leaking at the downpipe connection! You can't hear it but there is a faint exhaust plume that rises and you can smell it. I just can't win! So the downpipe will come off yet again to get reworked and I may see about using a gasket of sorts in the ball/cone connection that I am using.

Can't wait to get the hood back on, it is at least capable of a test drive now!

[jmgtp]

The mechanical and wiring is DONE. All that is left in that department is putting the hood back on and getting a front end alignment.
I'm turning my focus to tuning now and that is something I do not have much experience with.

I've started a thread in the computer section since I believe it may get more eyes on it there.

Please take a look: http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthre...446#post438446