3500 swap guide contribution

[finalcount09]

I'm a newbie and was sent this way from gaownersclub.com. Have just purchased a 3500 and plan to put it in my 2000 grand am. I have been searching and searching on this site for all the info I need to do this swap (what parts I need to purchase, things I need to modify, etc.) I know about the crank trigger and already plan on buying one. For now I plan on using my 3400 UIM and putting my 3500 UIM on at a later date. I want to make a guide with photos and everything to help out anyone else who wants to do this swap that hasn't already. I know that photo guides are really helpful because being able to see how something is done helps alot because sometimes just a description can be confusing. I have read that a 3500 swap guide was being created but I haven't found it on here. I would be interested if someone could show me where it is and maybe I can help contribute to it with photos and a description of what I did. I know some of you get really mad when someone posts a thread about a topic that is talked about often. Although I am asking for a little bit of advice about this swap, I also want to contribute as much I can to a step by step guide.

[bszopi]

I'd say if you want to contribute, post up in this thread - http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthre...500-Swap-Guide. Besides parts needed, is there anything else you haven't found info on? I'll try to help you out.

[finalcount09]

I think between posting this thread and now, I have filled in alot of the blank areas I was wondering about. This is what I have found out, so please fill free to correct if I am wrong.
I need an external crank trigger, going to swap my 3400 intake onto the 3500 for now (am going to buy adapter later). I either need to get a wire extension for the CTS (I know that WOT-Tech has an extension for this but both it and the crank trigger have been out of stock lately. I know I can buy the crank trigger from TCE but I haven't been able to find the extension anywhere else) or tap a hole in the 3500 LIM and use my 3400 CTS. I need to swap the oil pans because the 3400 has a sensor that the 3500 does not. I also read somewhere about a mounting bracket not lining up right and only two of the three bolts being able to be used? I also read that someone swapped the coil packs and ingnition control module over from the 3400. Is it neccesary to do so? Or is the 3500's sufficient?
This all I have come up with so far that I can think of. I'm sure I am forgetting something but please feel free to let me know.

[bszopi]

Pretty sure you have to swap the ICM and coil packs over from the 3400, as the ICM is what gets the 7x signal from the crank trigger, and sends it off to the PCM. And even though 1 person says he has been successful in swapping the 3400 oil pan onto the 3500, I personally wouldn't do it. GM clearanced the oil pan (as well as the block) for the connecting rods for a reason. I would much rather either leave the oil level sensor out (do you really need to know if your oil level is that low? I think you'd have other issues before it got to that point), or tap the 3500 oil pan for the sensor.

[finalcount09]

Pretty sure you have to swap the ICM and coil packs over from the 3400, as the ICM is what gets the 7x signal from the crank trigger, and sends it off to the PCM. And even though 1 person says he has been successful in swapping the 3400 oil pan onto the 3500, I personally wouldn't do it. GM clearanced the oil pan (as well as the block) for the connecting rods for a reason. I would much rather either leave the oil level sensor out (do you really need to know if your oil level is that low? I think you'd have other issues before it got to that point), or tap the 3500 oil pan for the sensor.

That makes sense about the ICM, otherwise the crank trigger is useless. And I wasn't sure if the sensor in the oil pan was the oil level sensor or not. And no, I don't need it. I just read somewhere that someone had swapped the pans. I thought maybe if the level sensor wasn't plugged in that it would throw a code or a check engine light. I won't worry about tapping it then. Now I don't have to worry about buying an oil pan gasket.

[bszopi]

I *think* it still needs to be plugged in, or possibly shorted across. Can't really remember. I know people have talked about it somewhere. Try it out with it unplugged and see if you get a light. If not, then you are good. If so, short across the terminals and the light should go off.

[finalcount09]

I unplugged my coolant level sensor a few months ago because it kept telling me I had low coolant (even though I didnt). It never threw a check engine light after I unplugged it. I wonder if the oil sensor will be the same. If its not, I'll def take your advice and short the terminals

[mickaz]

on a beretta its the dummy oil sensor. it will tell you if you engine is dead lol. myne flash once in a while saying low oil level in the dash.Im not sur eif I think you can remove that function from the ecm but im not sure.

[finalcount09]

I guess I'll just have to see when the time comes. I'll be getting the engine next week and starting the swap sometime after christmas. Just doing my research and everything ahead of time. Want to go into it with a pretty confident knowledge of everything

[boomofdoom88]

Theres really only a few things that require modifications.

1) Timing ring - basically your only option is the TCE setup

2) CTS - I tapped my 3500 lim for a 3400 sensor

3) Oil Pan - As you said. not necessary to swap if you dont want the sensor, looking back I probably would not do it again, but its too late

4) Engine mounts - You have to use the rear upper mount from a G6 and the lower one from your grand am works fine with no drilling

5) Knock sensors - The 3500 has two knock sensors that just need to be removed. a 3400 knock sensor threads right in. It goes right above and to the right of the oil filter

6) Oil Pressure sensor - My memory is a bit fuzzy, I'm not sure if I had to change this maybe someone else can chime in. I replaced all new sensors on my engine before I put it in.

7) Cam Sensor - if you have a 2000 GA your cam sensor needs to be on a pigtail. the 3500 sensor just pulls right out. take out the retaining bolt and pull it out. Plug the new 3400 one in with the pigtail and bolt it down.

Fuel rail - you have to use the 3400 fuel rail with compatible multec 2 injectors

9) Timing cover - the timing covers are nearly identical but your accessory arrangement is different. you also will have to install a 24x crank sensor on your timing cover behind the crank pulley. You MAY also have to do a CASE relearn with this. I lucked out this time. It runs perfect, but I'm gonna do one eventually when I have the tools just in case.

10) Crank pulley - You have to use a 3400 crank pulley

11) A/C Compressor - Just like the engine mounts the 3500 bosses sit at a slightly different angle. I had to space out the single bottom bolt with about 3/8 worth of washers

12) Alternator bracket - use the bracket from your GA

13)

If theres one thing I can advise tho. Definately get the felpro lower intake manifold gasket set. And use a good accurate torque wrench to bolt it all down. HUGE improvement over oem

I've attatched some pictures.

Good luck man!

[finalcount09]

Theres really only a few things that require modifications.

1) Timing ring - basically your only option is the TCE setup

2) CTS - I tapped my 3500 lim for a 3400 sensor

3) Oil Pan - As you said. not necessary to swap if you dont want the sensor, looking back I probably would not do it again, but its too late

4) Engine mounts - You have to use the rear upper mount from a G6 and the lower one from your grand am works fine with no drilling

5) Knock sensors - The 3500 has two knock sensors that just need to be removed. a 3400 knock sensor threads right in. It goes right above and to the right of the oil filter

6) Oil Pressure sensor - My memory is a bit fuzzy, I'm not sure if I had to change this maybe someone else can chime in. I replaced all new sensors on my engine before I put it in.

7) Cam Sensor - if you have a 2000 GA your cam sensor needs to be on a pigtail. the 3500 sensor just pulls right out. take out the retaining bolt and pull it out. Plug the new 3400 one in with the pigtail and bolt it down.

Fuel rail - you have to use the 3400 fuel rail with compatible multec 2 injectors

9) Timing cover - the timing covers are nearly identical but your accessory arrangement is different. you also will have to install a 24x crank sensor on your timing cover behind the crank pulley. You MAY also have to do a CASE relearn with this. I lucked out this time. It runs perfect, but I'm gonna do one eventually when I have the tools just in case.

10) Crank pulley - You have to use a 3400 crank pulley

11) A/C Compressor - Just like the engine mounts the 3500 bosses sit at a slightly different angle. I had to space out the single bottom bolt with about 3/8 worth of washers

12) Alternator bracket - use the bracket from your GA

13)

If theres one thing I can advise tho. Definately get the felpro lower intake manifold gasket set. And use a good accurate torque wrench to bolt it all down. HUGE improvement over oem

I've attatched some pictures.

Good luck man!

Ok, I just need to clear a few things up:

In regards to the cam sensor. Are you saying I need to GET a pigtail or just use my cam sensor from the 3400 that has a pigtail?

Since there are different accessories, do I need to swap timing covers then? And will I have to purchase the 24x crank sensor or does one of the engines already have this and all I need to do is swap them? Also, does the case relearn have something to do with the PCM?

I really appreciate the help, I was just a little unclear by what you meant in regards to those things. Thanks for the pictures! Pics def help me alot.

Also, I don't have the 3500 yet, its on its way. I am not sure if it will have the G6 bracket on it or not. If not, can the slight angle difference be modified slightly to make to make it work?

[HOYS]

Swap the cam sensor from your 3400 or buy a new one meant for a GA.

Its worth it to swap the timing cover IMHO. The 3500 does not have a 24x sensor on the timing cover.

You can modify the bracket from the GA to fit the 3500 block if your good at welding or know somebody who is.

[finalcount09]

Ok thanks. And one more thing I forgot to ask. Do I HAVE to get multec 2 injectors or can I use my 3400 injectors?

[mickaz]

Swap the cam sensor from your 3400 or buy a new one meant for a GA.

Its worth it to swap the timing cover IMHO. The 3500 does not have a 24x sensor on the timing cover.

You can modify the bracket from the GA to fit the 3500 block if your good at welding or know somebody who is.

the holes are allready there to swap the 24x sensor. so swapping the cover is kinda useless.

[boomofdoom88]

the holes are allready there to swap the 24x sensor. so swapping the cover is kinda useless.

Exactly. The hole are already there. I never said to swap timing covers, just said the accessory arrangement was different haha. But I did swap timing covers, but only because mine was broke at the water pump.