...About this idea of mine and the resulting device that is now built... Now that I know that somebody else dreamed it up first, to be fair, I just sent an email to the REAL originator of this idea...gave him some props for thinking it all up... and let him know that HE gets all the credit for its design...attached is a screen print of my message to the man...
I got a response back from the Originator of this project. He seems very pleased that the idea is still being kicked around...
1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E, OBD1 Conversion...for now, future plans include a 3900, T04E-46 (Knock-Off) turbo (For the 3100, ~T61 for the 3900), and a F40.
I think the only limiting factor you are going to run into with the relay idea is the turn on and turn off speed (unless you go with a solid state one). I used to try to reverse step down transformers in electronics class to make a "shocker" and tried to rig something up to turn on and off fast (since pushing a normally open momentary push button switch was not fast enough, and not as cool) to deliver a better shock. I used contacts on the relay (it had about 6 sets of contacts?) that were normally closed when off and went open when powered up to feed the actual coil on the relay. This way when yo put power to it, it would switch states and go open, dropping power to the coil, which would then change switch states again to power the coil, which would switch states again, and so on in a loop. It would only fire for about a second before it would stop until I removed power from it. My thought was it would keep going and going being self sustaining to continue to deliver a good shock, but it didn't work. Ideally I think you might need a 555 timer or some other timer circuit to trigger the relay to get the results you want. I only bring this up because from the sound of the speed those injectors were firing in that video, I think it is going to be too fast for the relay to handle (unless again, like I said, it's a solid state one). BTW, I like your contraption
Thanks... (...and...Praise from Caesar!!!)
I think your observation about the speed and the sheer physical problem of the relays opening and closing them would wear the thing out too damned quick...if a mechanical relay could even do it, now that I think of it. It would have been nice of the GM Designers of the PCMs/ECMs to isolate a discreet circuit that handles this the way it operates using microprocessers and transistors (Thank God for the boys at Bell Labs for making this part of EFI possible back in the 1950s!...Throw away that GM mechanical FI unit they had on the 283s!!! and bring on the 80s-90s!!!) Now I've just got to ask the right questions after bellying up at the counter of a local electrical supply house and present the problem to them...Hell...I'd settle for a Lawn Sprinkler Control box if would make those damned pintles bounce in and out and all six at once!
I guess before I go in there and make a complete fool of myself and get the boot for not trying the automotive shops for the answer...it would be a good idea if I knew all there was to know about these EFIs...from the standpoint of there electrical characteristics...so the counter man knows what he is up against in finding the right relays and /or parts. Primarily I'm concerned with the Rochester Multech High Impedance flavors ..but knowing the lower standards might be helpful if I wind up working on sets of them, too. Does anyone have the dope on this issue?
I was just wondering...have any of you ever been able to squeeze an electrical schematic out of "The Mind of The SuperDave!"....See...he KNOWS he's killing me right now with what he KNOWS that I do not (Volumes !!! LOL)
Last edited by 60dgrzbelow0; 10-12-2009 at 07:41 PM.
Gentlemen... Thank You...One and All for the help, ideas, criticism and input on the electrical side of this project. Tonight... I got lucky and found another used OTC EFI Tester (the next model up from the single one I have been using) listed on eBay for $99.00-OBO. The Seller accepted my bid for $75.00 so my problem is solved for this particular machine (See attached eBay listing of the product image and technical description). When I apply "Both Barrels" of the Dual OTC Units, I'll shoot some closeup videos so all can see how they perform side-by-side with all six injectors receiving simultaneous active cleaning.
I feel a little guilty about having asked everyone to trouble themselves and scratch their noggins to come up with a better EFI Firing Solution. Perhaps if the idea catches on with others more gifted on the electronic/electrical creative design side than I've been able to do, they'll ultimately build something that works better with no fire hazard from open relays.
Now that this problem is solved, there are only three more things that need to be resolved for this Home Made EFI Cleaning Machine to be complete (I'm calling this Contraption: "The FrankInjector" ) and able to effectively do all the things the more expensive, commercial versions do:
(1) Seal off the UMAX Ultra-Sonic Machine's upper section with some type of plastic lid and a wire support to keep the EFI spray tips submerged in the boiling cleaner and the OTC wire harness bone dry while activating them in solution, with no chance of any electrical short.
(2) I need to figure out how to reverse mount each Fuel Injector (backwards) into the GM Fuel Rail (the problem is that the front ends that are designed to penetrate the Intake Manifold holes do NOT support the Half-Moon Clips that work in their normal position). If I can keep them in place and not popping out under 45 PSI and starting a pressurized fire, then the reverse flushing of each units will be a walk in the park,
(3) I have to design a simple clear acrylic down-tubing arrangement so the 50ml Graduated Fluid Cylinders can be placed in a manner to capture the exiting fuel spray and allow for their delivery of cleaning agent to be measured, one against the other and determine if all (6) or even eight balance out. When I finally figure all of these problems out, I'll memorialize the fixes with photos and videos that will join the others on this project to be shared publicly on my Internet photo-bucket.
Well... Thanks again, Folks... I know the thread is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth, but if anyone needs other information of the full parts list and methods of the build...I'll post an organized "How-To" there as well when everything is fully built, tested and proves to work reliably.
Last edited by 60dgrzbelow0; 10-12-2009 at 08:09 PM.
(2) I need to figure out how to reverse mount each Fuel Injector (backwards) into the GM Fuel Rail (the problem is that the front ends that are designed to penetrate the Intake Manifold holes do NOT support the Half-Moon Clips that work in their normal position). If I can keep them in place and not popping out under 45 PSI and starting a pressurized fire, then the reverse flushing of each units will be a walk in the park,
Considering fuel injector o-rings are the same top and bottom, I would try flipping them and bolting the rail down to a hacked up LIM. I say hacked up so you can capture the cleaner easier for measurement like you are talking about.
P-R...Now THAT is a VERY CLEVER IDEA!... I'm not swimming in extra top-end parts right now to be able to do that...but your suggestion makes me think that I could dummy up a bracing bar with a half-moon shapes cut in them to grab the inverted EFI's and use some kind of quick-disconnecting clamp that I can loosen when the pressure on the rail drops to "0" to install and remove them. Excellent thinking...
By the By... I spied some specialty K&M GM Tools that are specific to the "W" Car Line Series and for anyone who works the re-builds on the DOHC flavor of the 3.4L Engines. The prices on these are not too dear...and they won't last long for that reason, so I thought its worth mentioning here. Take a look at these two tools:
i've got a 93-95 3100 LIM laying around that i'm never going to use....
if that helps.
1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E, OBD1 Conversion...for now, future plans include a 3900, T04E-46 (Knock-Off) turbo (For the 3100, ~T61 for the 3900), and a F40.
This may or may not be Off Topic...but I've got the latest video done showing more features on "The Frankinjector"... I tried to be as comprehensive and quick as I could to answer some questions raised earlier in the thread, but the video is still around 80 Megs and is taking too damned long to upload on www.photobucket.com. Can anyone recommend a free app... perhaps an Open Source one...that will squeeze my avi down a bit ...maybe to an FLV format...and speed this process up? It been loading for over two hours now an is only 27% finished!!!
1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E, OBD1 Conversion...for now, future plans include a 3900, T04E-46 (Knock-Off) turbo (For the 3100, ~T61 for the 3900), and a F40.
Originally Posted by 60dgrzbelow0
(...and...Praise from Caesar!!!)
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