turboing 86 fiero gt - Page 2

robertisaar · 09-09-2009, 09:52 PM

squirrelpf.com/turbocalc

enter your setup in there and you'll see exactly why what you are trying to accomplish is a very bad way to do it.

there are LS motors using smaller turbos than the GT42... now something displacing twice as much volume and able to spin just as fast, but they use a smaller one, why do you think that is? its not because they're not running a I/C or any other reason: its the optimal turbo for the application.

Joseph Upson · 09-09-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikinz24

goin with alot of port work to the heads. im running high boost its not guna be a daily driver of no means. i culd care less if i have to buy cam 2 for each run. i jus want this little car with a huge turbo. and yes i know its overkill. but itll be ok lol. anyhow all the turbo setups people are running are going non i/c im running a rear mount ic. with alky injection. i like doing what people tell me i cant do. i ran a super 60 on a 97z24 nobody said it would run. and if you ask anyone around town that car was f***N wicked. theres a guy on the fbody forums running a 72trim on a 2.8 and its pushing 412 hp. i know it is possible and plan on doing it. because i like the attention of HOLY S**T that turbo is HUGE. hell i got it jus chillen in the engine bay and my friends are like dude ur guna kill urself.....

i will make it fast or die tryin!

I don't believe anyone intends to discourage you, and there's nothing wrong with being different, it's just the numbers are not within reason for what you are planning to do. You purchased the turbo because it was an excellent deal, not because it is optimal for what you are trying to accomplish, that in itself is counter productive. 72 trim on a 2.8L doesn't say a lot without all of the specs. A super 60 is a T3 turbo which is what's being suggested. What are your power goals?

Why not put the intercooler in the front of the car for the best cooling ability.

kikinz24 · 09-09-2009, 10:20 PM

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/...product_id=124

this is approx what it looks like on there kinda generic but i guess it works. i know the ic dont change too too much but im still running it bc u dnt see it out there. also as i said in the past i got the turbo for only 400 dollars i cant even touch a brand new gt30-32 for that which is what i would originally go with size wise. so as it may be considered overkill it will definitly do the job properly. at hell 1/3 of the cost of the turbo i was going to go with.

kikinz24 · 09-09-2009, 10:24 PM

im planning on pushing as much as the motor can handle . if it scatters ill tear it apart and rebuild it again. honestly my main goal it to attempt close to 500hp . plus fmic on a rear engine vehicle would not be efficient at all. honstly dont know the breaking point of this motor but if i could hook anywhere near 500 ill be the happest camper out there lol

Joseph Upson · 09-09-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikinz24

im planning on pushing as much as the motor can handle . if it scatters ill tear it apart and rebuild it again. honestly my main goal it to attempt close to 500hp . plus fmic on a rear engine vehicle would not be efficient at all. honstly dont know the breaking point of this motor but if i could hook anywhere near 500 ill be the happest camper out there lol

Why wouldn't a front mount intercooler be efficient keeping in mind rear mount turbo systems and the advantage a front mount intercooler has over that distance compared to a rear mount turbo since heat loss from intake charge is a good thing unlike heat loss on the exhaust side over the same distance.

kikinz24 · 09-10-2009, 08:04 AM

I'm already going to deal with lag if I run that much pipin its going to add a bit more. Look at acura nsx's and toyota mr2s running a rear mount with a diffuser catches plenty of air to cool also remember I have an alky injection setup for it as well

robertisaar · 09-10-2009, 09:51 AM

lag is not the same as boost threshold. more piping will increase the threshold. lag is entirely dependant on engine tune and the turbo. retarding the spark 15* will spool the shit out of a turbo to get it up to speed. that's reducing lag.

Joseph Upson · 09-10-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikinz24

I'm already going to deal with lag if I run that much pipin its going to add a bit more. Look at acura nsx's and toyota mr2s running a rear mount with a diffuser catches plenty of air to cool also remember I have an alky injection setup for it as well

robertisaar is correct and that's the point I was trying to get across that side by side a long distance intercooler system compared to a long distance turbo system all else the same will build boost quicker in part because of how far the energy that spools the turbo has to travel and the loss of effective spooling due to the cooling of the exhaust gases along the way causing them to contract. This phenomena has the opposite and positive effect on intake charge air over the same distance.

I didn't notice any increased lag with my front mount intercooler and I made it a point to do the math before conducting the experiment, I believe my results are in my build thread but the time to throttle body increase was such a small amount compared to what I stood to gain it was not a problem. My inlet air temps are now about 100 deg farenheit at ~8 psi on mid grade fuel down from 212 deg without an IC, that's good for about a 10% increase in power.

I'm going to convert it to rear IC because I don't have room for the proper pipe diameter to run the intended 15 psi over that distance and because I want to simplify the entire system for dependability, so I'll be moving away from the twin turbo setup also to a T72 or T76 single turbo with a .96 or more if necessary turbine housing. I also have a water/meth kit that hasn't been installed yet as well as 60 lb/hr injectors which is another area I forgot to mention to you may be a problem on a 2.8L if you can't pulse them low enough to avoid flooding the motor at idle since they are more than 3 times the flow ability of the stock injectors.
Although you mentioned other engines using the setup or similar to your plans, I believe all of them were more powerful and efficient than the 2.8L which means you are more likely to have too much supply for your engines demand which can be a problem.

Here is my car now with the front mount intercooler and cripplingly advanced camshaft that is likely cutting output by as much as 100 hp if CNCguy's estimate of 20 deg advance and my Dyno simulators estimate is correct. I'm going to degree it in to fix that.

Hope you succeed at what you have planned.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/T...out_680592.htm

Proof of the front mount intercooler
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/084972-5.html

robertisaar · 09-10-2009, 10:58 AM

buy, borrow or steal it... cost me $35, but goddamn, i learned a lot.

kikinz24 · 09-10-2009, 11:40 AM

I am running a 7730 ecm which from talking to a few people on v6z24 and fiero forums that comp can be chiiped propperly to change my fuel maps to run such large injectors. And if I'm wrong then someone tell me now buecause I will spend the time upgrading to a obd2 setup and using my hptuners. If I fail in the end ill know why. And then I will sell my turbo and get a smaller one its all about trial and error. This isn't a car I will ever drive but a few nice days s year and to car shows around town so Its a learning experience. I kno of guys who ran the tgp setups on z24 s with a larger turbo obviously not as large as mine but pushing amazing numbers. To me it is just a hobby, just like twin charging a sunfire it is absolutly under powered compared to just a turbo but the guy did it just to do it. It runs 13s but is a 1 of a kind. I'm pretty confident I can get this thing up n running propperly.